Lets try to strike a balance. And go back to our gear compedium.
-Elf-forged Golden Pendant +150 Might +768 Physical Mastery Rating +970 Critical Defence
Drops on: School of Tham Mirdain
-Chain of Lost Moments+150 Might, +768 Physical Mastery Rating, +778 Tactical Mitigation
Drops from Halls of Night
-Pitted Steel Chain +113 Might, +113 Vitality, +778 Tactical Mitigation
Drops from Thadur (Great Barrow Water wing)
-Norcrofts Iron Necklace +66 Vitality +179 Maximum Morale +705 Physical Mitigation +1567 Tactical Mitigation
Available from Rohan Barterers.
I listed only items quick and easy to farm/barter. There is an easy balance to strike between Might and critical defense or tact mit in the necklace slot.
-Confiscated Journal +113 Might +421 Maximum Morale +768 Critical Rating
Drops in Dungeons of Dol Guldur.
-Metal Plaque +75 might +75 Vitality + 752 Critical Rating
Drops from regular mobs?
-Illuminated Great River Book of Defence +95 Vitality +672 Critical Rating +681 Physical Mitigation+681 Tactical Mitigation
-Norcrofts Silver Bauble ( not on wiki) 66Will 696Critical rating 1567 Tactical Mitigation.
Again there are plenty of options to balance critical and Might with Mitigations/Morale on the pocket slot.
Sarchol 477 Armour +337 Maximum Morale +1020 Finesse Rating +1513 Physical Mitigation +1513 Tactical Mitigation
Drops from: Pits of Isengard T2 Challenge chest
Wrap of Endless Bones 581 Armour +38 Might +113 Vitality +1164 Finesse Rating +384 Block Rating +384 Parry Rating
Drops in Sammath Gûl.
Sereggol 581 Armour +75 Might +113 Vitality +184 Maximum Power +384 Parry Rating
Drops from Dúrchest in Barad Guldur.
Heavy Sutcrofts Cloak 527 Armour +107 Might +71 Vitality +368 Critical Rating
Protective Cloak of Éomer 581 Armour +75 Vitality +421 Maximum Morale +1164 Finesse Rating +384 Critical Rating +778 Tactical Mitigation
Some cloaks are harder to come by, but there are easier options that keep a good balance between Might/critical and Vitality/mitigations.
Slightly tangential question: how much Fate are people generally running with, post-nerf? How much ICPR?
I'm running at around 600 fate or so.... it doesn't feel like enough =/
Originally Posted by furtim
The only ICPR item I have left is the crafted Eomer bracelet I'm still using =X
wow, you guys are really min/maxing with the theorycrafting here! i cant do that stuff (i get too bored) but appreciate reading it to help make quick desicions!
as for jewelry, right now, ill just take what i can get!
I think with the arrival of u11 i will do this in a standard raid:
4 Hytbold healer and 2 Pers as standard but having lots of other sets for specific situation.
1h + r10 shield (u11)
Fornost captain cloak
Bells earring x2
New gold might/heal pocket (u11, will see how it gets along with the cloak)
Shiny Wyrmfire necklace of defence
New repuration bracelets x2 (u11, same stat slices as Bells earring)
Crif defence/inc healing proc vitality ring
Crit rating proc might ring
This build is high on might and crit and has good max morale. Also the cloak and pocket healing proces as well as critdef/incheals and crit proces from rings being here (those proces i value most, might is a good one too, i currently run flask of rancid oil, maybe ill try to get the HV bracelet)
Ill also see if i can squeeze in mits proc somehow. I do not value HoT proc so much except when soloing and i do not think the new heal-proc might ring is better than others except maybe for main healing 6man or 3man.
There is this possibility:
you can rotate crit defence, HoT and mits ring on same slot. switching to the next when the current one proces.
Rotating three would be much indeed, i dont think i will ever do it.
I do rotate crit defence/incheals and hot in moors soloing sometime.
The build i named up there does lack one thing: not that high tac mit.
I raise it by need with tanky jewells, Tuck/Gond/AS shield is more defensive too.
Do not feel bad about losing might when you need to for a good cause (tac mit being the leading one).
Experiment with your stats, read the tooltip value of your heals after losing a lot of might and you might likely find yourself surprised that the healing does not decrease as much as you think.
Pero your idea ( its not a build since you clearly do not own many pieces listed ) falls short in many aspects:
-If you slot all of these you will be well above Critical Cap. And your Tactical mastery is above 100% and deep inside diminished returns realm.
-You give up on Sarchol on cloak slot AND Horse-lords' Ancient Tome of Protection on Pocket slot. As much as one loves both golden alternatives, these items add a ton of survivability to the Captain. A more practical approach would be to use at least one of these, if not both.
-As said before, your second ring could be a tact mit proc or hoary platinum band. I agree when people say that its unwise to slot a crit defense proc when you can get +1940 crit defense up all the time. If you count on getting hit to increase your critical defense, you are risking too much and gaining too little too late.
Nascephor, yes, this is just an undeveloped idea i just put out of my head when i was writting. I build differently on live and do not overcap and have more defence.
Originally Posted by Pero_the_Cappy
It was ment as build going maximally for healing but, as i have said, evolving to be more tanky (more crit def, tac mit and morale) as much as needed.
- yep, i dont own all those pieces, especially those with high crit i named so i do not have the math
- id never unslot fornost captain cloak for sarchol, the extra healing is much and i would rather get some defense elsewhere, can not quite comment the pocket yet but as many dont have the fornost cloak they dont have horse lords either
- also, especially if the pocket buff stacks with cloak, 5% and 10% will never be diminished so you can lose a lot of might (TM) for defense elsewhere
- i like the Hoary Platinum Band and the thing you said, it would depend how much i can get hit in a raid normally without taking more dmg on purpose, you dont need so much finesse in PvE so Hoary thing is good
No comment on the rest, but as for this remark I think it's totally appropriate to present a "build" that's purely theory-crafted. But maybe that's just the D&D CharOpper talking, since probably 90% of what folks theorycraft there never sees a gaming table.
Originally Posted by Nascephor
For me, the dividing line between a "build" and "idea" is simply thoroughness. Did you spec out every piece of armour and jewelry, define the legacies and relics on the LIs? That's a build. And even then, I'd say there's more of a spectrum. It's ok to post a build that leaves a spot for customisation like, "put whatever earrings you want on, because they're not important" or "minor legacies are up to you, since this build doesn't rely on any particular ones".
Some guys mentioned Helegrod set. Is there a L85 version of it?
Now that U11 is in play, what do you think of the Survivors Pocket and Bracelets?
It was before U11 to drop RC to zero seconds.
Originally Posted by ferrariroger
Now that the bug has been fixed, if you wanted a 6 second Rally Cry, you (effectively) have to go with the Perserverance set.
The Survivor Might Bracelet has a nice amount of crit on it. I think I'm going to keep my existing ones, though, as they have better ICPR/Fate.
The Survivor Pockets are tasty, though. For Might, I'm not sure the Survivor item is better than the Flask of Rancid Oil. They're probably about equivalent in the end. But the Vitality pocket from Wildermore has a huge amount of Critical Defence, enough that I feel just fine replacing my Defensive Scroll of Eomer with it, despite getting less maximum morale from the deal.
In general, though, the proc effects are not that great. IMO, the Mender pocket is the clear choice for us. The DoT from the Warrior pocket is not insignificant, but it's also not that amazing, either. But +5% OGH is probably the smarter pick.
I got some Epic Shoulders the other day from Bells, Shoulder-guards of the Erebor Captain. I'm not on right now but if I remember correctly the stats were something like 576 armor-162 Mt-98 Vit- 405 Crit-2% VS return. Haven't played with them much yet but I don't know if the loss of a 2-set bonus is worth the slight stat increase and the 2% VS return. QQ anyone think this could outweigh the -7s cooldown from the Hytbold set bonus?
Originally Posted by furtim
Oh, it's absolutely not better than the -7s cooldown. But, I think you might combine 4 Hytbold Healer with those Shoulders and another gold item. Maybe. Don't ask me which other one. :P
Editing rather than bumping...
So, has anybody else looked at the LI titles from the People of Wildermore vendor? He's got a Beleriand+Crit weapon title and a Light Damage+Crit emblem title. They give 380 Crit Rating each. I know a lot of Cappies are at or near the Crit Rating cap as it is, but these definitely make an interesting choice anyway. I believe the emblem title is available in Phys/Tact Migitation+Crit varieties as well. There are also +Crit Defence titles for tanky Captains, too.
Just found this thread and messed around with numbers a bit to get the average time (T) the proc would trigger again after the last activation.
Originally Posted by furtim
First there is the proc-cooldown of c = 30 sec which we have to wait for. Then with every skill usage there is a p = 15% chance to trigger and a q = 1 - p = 85% chance to wait t seconds for the next chance to trigger.
This leads to the following equation:
T = c + pt + 2ptq + 3ptq^2 +... = c + pt * sum(n = 0..infinity, (n+1)q^n) (I)
Writing a sum like this looks awkward but I do not have a better way right now. Next we have to calculate this sum which can be easily gotten by derivating the geometrical series:
sum(n = 0..infinity, (n+1)q^n) = d/dq sum(n = 0..infinity, q^(n+1)) = d/dq sum(n = 1..infinity, q^n) = d/dq (sum(n = 0..infinity, q^n) - q^0) = d/dq (1/(1-q)-1) = 1/(1-q)^2 = 1/p^2 (II)
Inserting (II) in (I) yields
T = c + pt/p^2 = c + t/p
which means the average time T to get the proc triggered again equals the proc-cooldown c added to the ratio of the time between skills t and the proc chance p.
With c = 30s, t = 3s and p = 0.15 the result is T = 50sec which means spamming WoC procs this buff on average every 50 seconds (to be precise t = 3s is too low as WoC have an animation time as well).
The time between the end of the proc-cooldown and the average reactivation is T - c = t/p. If we now divide this reactivation time by the cooldown time of a skill t we get the average number of skill usages 1/p which is what furtim claimed in the quoted post.
Not really. Two pieces of Helegrod armour are sufficient, as they also drop your Rallying Cry CD down to 6 seconds. The drop in tactical mastery doesn't have as much of an impact on the heal as you might think (just compare the tooltips of your heals with using 2 pieces of Hele armor and with 2 pieces of level 85 armor in their place). If you feel the drop in masteries in too high, one can always macro-swap the two Hele pieces for Rallying Cry and then swap back to two other pieces once RC went through. So if one really isn't into going to the Moors for getting their PvE gear, then Hele armor is a perfectly valid alternative. That being said, if one doesn't mind spending a few hours in the Moors, go grab those two Preservance pieces, as they are obviously better than the Hele pieces stat wise.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
It's not the drop in masteries that concern me, it's the drop in everything else because the armor is statted for a 65 pre-stat cap removal (ie: really wierdly).
Originally Posted by Vodomir
I very much prefer grabbing two pieces of Menestaid (ToO healer set) instead, as that gives a +20% VS healing bonus. You lose some stats by using lvl 75 armor but it's not much.
Originally Posted by Steppenwulf
However, I only use Menestaid because of macros, I'd never use it as primary set.