Printable View
It's because of the new Valiant Strike changes. Hands of Healing Captains are miles ahead of where they used to be in healing output and are actually effective AoE healers now. That can be of a huge benefit to the group during times of heavy group-wide damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Souku
That's why I run around with 2 Perserverance + 4 Hytbold Healer permanently slotted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitas
Well I appreciate your tone Emachine. Thank you for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emachine
And I understand it won't be an exact comparison. I was actually giving serious thought to using a one-handed sword and shield a few weeks back, crafted me a sword and everything and went about some solo work with it to see how I liked it. The results were not what I hoped. My damage seemed to take a big hit, and I couldn't even clear out regular trash pulls in Warg Pens without dying. Pulls I usually breezed through with my Great Sword. That convinced me that the damage difference between them was too big for me to live with.
But after reading some of these posts stating the contrary, I've decided to take another stab at it and renew my interest and test it once again. I just figured I'd share my results, and show how the damage numbers on my attacks change from one to the other as a way to contrast. It may interest some, others may find it faulty and a waste of time to view. I'm content with either reaction, especially if it's done with the dignity you have shown. Those responses of a more aggressive and negative nature I will attempt to take in stride :)
Yeah, the test I did showed a twenty some percent difference. In group play where your job isn't to worry about dps I'd say 1h or 2h is up for debate but solo ~25% is way too big of difference. Your first impression was spot on, 2 hander all the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremi
But the kicker, our DPS isn't large enough (we're half a DPS class at best) that it's not needed in endgame content where HoH is becoming dominant again =/Quote:
Originally Posted by Emachine
So again, it all goes back to what we're doing.
how much of that healing is actually effective though? my guess is that a majority of that is overhealing that does nothing other than pad the CA numbers. a good minstrel is going to significantly increase the dps of every member of the group with anthems (granted a lot of minstrels still haven't managed to grasp how important these are for some reason). i mean i see that argument for fitting in an extra dps but personally i would rather do it by dropping the tank (sadly). 4 champs + MoW capt + mins is probably the best group for almost all of the six mans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitas
Yes and no, just because of the nature of our healing. Since a lot of our healing comes from hots we have to preset our hots before the damage is done. So basically all our healing is overhealing until it isn't. It's not useless or superfluous it's just the nature of how you have to use hots. You have to keep them up before the damage occurs, not after.Quote:
Originally Posted by Souku
Yeah, when in a group our personal contribution is a pretty small percent (I'm of the argument that if you have a shield, use it) but when solo it's 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
I recall switching to sword and board in my 20s or 30s to finish a skirmish I was having trouble with. I stuck with that setup until Moria. At that point fights were lasting forever and at the end of them I'd be almost completely drained of power. When I switched back to the 2h, it was like night and day. More power and less time in combat. Can't believe it took me so long to switch.
While I'm sold on making a 1-H and using it when doing HOH in a raid setting, biggest thing holding me back is the cost/benefit. I don't spend THAT much time doing HOH in raid. For most of the smaller content, I'm blitzing through in LtC (or am in HOH and don't need mitigations to speak of). I'm doing more HOH than I used to thanks to the RC/VS winning combo. But I tend to want to optimize my weapons. That means the way I build weapons a 2nd age's cost is something like:Quote:
Originally Posted by Emachine
Symbol
~12 SOE (could be much worse depending on how the ID/legacies go, could be less too)
Scroll of Delving
3 star-lit crystals
1 crystal of remembrance
30K shards
12 T9 relics
Compendium V4
The resources used are considerable, valued on the rough order of 1000 gold on the AH. I have most of that and can get the rest, so I COULD do it. And if I get the Captain gold shield, which I'm casually trying to do without grinding for it, I'll certainly pull the trigger. But for now I just feeling ambivalent about the expenditure.
I don't feel you'd get enough benefit out of crystals on a 1H weapon to justify using them. (Same logic as the DPS lost from 2H to 1H, though it's not really made up in healing... just cost saved in this case.) There's not really enough important majors to justify a Remembrance crystal, and it's not like you'll have enough points to spend on everything as it is, so really in that case you just unlock an extra stat legacy or something. You can also save on relics by going with the T6 True Setting (crit/mastery/fate) and T9 regular gem, which ends up giving you about the same crit and mastery as, say, T9 True setting and T9 True gem. You lose maybe 100 of each at most, and again, much cheaper to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise
Personally I've got gold and relics coming out of my ears, so any investment I can put on my 2H I can simultaneously put on my 1H. I do skip both types of crystals for captain weapons though. (Think I may have put one crystal on the 2H 'cause I got one from a drop and ran out of other toons to put it on.)
Also, I kind of went nuts on captain. I have something like 9 LIs, 7 of which have the full relic load? So I know all about optimizing. :p I actually feel sad that I can't make any more LIs 'cause then I'd have no room to level trash ones. (Probably the only person on LotRO that misses working on LIs!)
Eh, I've been using the Crystal of Remembrance as a free stat legacy more than anything else.
As far as hoH + 1H.... I've had fairly good success with that healing 3 mans, and I like the extra healing boost it gives there.
I would add the point that sometimes 3man and 6man T1 farms ask for a captain to heal and tank. School, Library, Thardur and Sambrog are a few instances where i had to fill both roles. Not having a shield really made my work difficult and i can hardly argue that using a 2-h would increase my contribution to group DPS in teams full of hunters and glass cannon champions. trust me : when you farm Sambrog with 4 hunters and a dps champ things go much smoother with a shield, even a sub-par one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremi
Most of the time i am running HoH anyway. If i had a S&B option, i would also be able to better tank when required. Captanking makes farm runs goes faster because 6-man T1 are run with 5 DPS instead of 4 or 3 and a half.
Suggested build for captaking in HoH:
5b removing FnD and using SfW, improved routing cry for forced attacks, Turn of the tide for stuns.
Armour 2:2:2 for 0s Rallying Crys, tank cloak and jewellery.
The ability to fully use our might for blocking without giving up the 1m VS of HoH can make the Captain the most desired member of a group in T1 farms.
As to the first point, yeah. +55 might with no investment is nice for healing and/or DPS....Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
As to the second, which 3 mans do you find need the now superior healing of HOH? Most of them are now so easy that to the extent healing is needed (if you have a good tank very little) I usually find LtC more than up to the task?
Eh, I do a ton of PUGing (and prefer doing the 3 mans on T2 HM), so I'd rather have the extra healing there in case I need it. If I'm running with people that I know, I'd defintely consider running with LtC.Quote:
Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise
The only noticeable difference between healing some of the 3-mans in a PUG and healing them in a group of friends (in LtC) is that when PUGing you're likely to also end up holding aggro pretty successfully in addition to being the only healer. That's probably true in several situations though, so I could see how you'd want the extra heals to keep yourself alive. :p Also, school is so stupidly easy (or Library? Lligash the Blade one) you can actually solo it LtC (minus challenge, of course).Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
I use a 2 hander. Although the reason I use it was because back at 65, you would actually run out of power with a one hander (Power Banner flasback). Also, I always fancied the cosmetic of them. As it stands now, you could do either effectively for healing. Probably 2H for DPS and S&B for tanking.
Cas
I think this thread has already gotten off track of it intended purpose and has gone to the min/max debate revolving around healing that I hated back in WoW for Pallies. But if it's off track of its original purpose already, can I ask again about tips for which is best for tanking? I know that the LoM trait line allows for blocking with a 2h, but it seems like you'd have to go with a sword and shield to be effective. Any discussions I see on the topic don't really touch on weapon choice, though I have seen more 1h compared to 2h use when it is discussed.
I know this was answered in a post earlier, but is there a good way to decide between 2h and 1h tanking for Captains? Honestly, with the revamp I'd like to see the devs give more choice in the matter to Captains (for both LoM and HoH), but my personal feeling is that a Captain (in LotR) should be leading the charge with a 2h, no matter their role.
Halberd special is +threat on each attack - which is why the 2H tanking even exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berophant
S&B will give you better survivability because the stats on the shield >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stats on the halberd.
You can run with other 2H's while tanking, but they aren't going to be as attractive as the halberd.
Would the 2H sword offer 2% parry as opposed to the 1H sword's 1%?Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
I can understand your point here. I have ended up tanking and healing on a few pugs I've been in by accident, so I can see how a Captain wanting to purposely both heal and tank would find wearing a shield ideal. But I think that's more of a fluke due to the general ease of a lot of the newer scaled content (such as the Great Barrows as you mentioned). I would be skeptical of it's success in the more difficult tier2 variety 6 mans. But if you're running a lot of library/School/Thardur/Sambrog as you mentioned, your point is well taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascephor