I gotta agree with this. My morale pool is a little lower than it should be (15.5k last time I checked) but do to a combination of Shield Brother (the extra 15% inc healing brings me to roughly 35%, and I take 25% less damage every 25 seconds out of a minute), some small self-heals, and BPE that's only slightly lower than a guard (can't get my block or parry as high, but my evade isn't as &&&&&& like guards' evade tends to be) I'm pretty hard to kill. I wouldn't mind a 4x vit multiplier on one of our trait bonuses (4 deep or capstone) but I think that's really all we need for survivability.
Originally Posted by furtim
The focus definitely needs to be on aggro, since the same mini who heals me (via red traited Harmony stance) through most of the instances I tank (and states that I'm super easy to heal) also tends to pull at least one mob per trash pull, to say nothing of the people who are fully DPS traited and actually on DPS classes. Not much of a way around that unless we sat waiting around in between trash pulls to wait for my force taunt to come up every time (way too much reliance on the force taunts for cappy tanking, I've noticed).
I definitely agree with this...
Originally Posted by furtim
If I could slot the Hope banner, I would be at around 18k or so morale, and not a very squishy 18k (I normally sit at about 16k with the Victory Banner)....
However, my threat (especially multi target threat) is extremely lacking (SotGG T2 second wave can overwhelm my threat capability if the DPS isn't shredding the lickspittle fast enough), and the power consumption is atrocious at best.
say that again!
Originally Posted by OverlordGate
1. Roles- It is my opinion that Captains should be able to fulfill primary roles as a full fledged Healer and as a full fledged tank. One of the best tools in which I could see us achieving more success in those aspects would be to include tank and healing stances, while dps be a "null" or no stance. We could then change the Blade/Song/Shield Brother toggles into just one toggle skill which changes depending on the current stance. Ideally I would like to see us fill a primary DPS role but with respect to how other captains feel we should maintain a hybrid feel I would suggest that our DPS spec be used to maintain a strong hybrid role and I'd still like to see more improvements to our dps even if it is secondary.
2. Buffing- With the exception of certain buffs such as War Cry, I think some of our other buffs(IDOME and the Brother based buffs primarily) should be more significant in effect, with a modest to short duration and a longer cooldown time. The idea is to make buffs really turn the tide of battle while rewarding Captains for using a buff at a good time in battle and remove the constant watching of the cooldown timers to respam the same buff. As an example the skill "To Arms" would increase the whole fellowships damage output by 25% in DPS or Null stance for 15 seconds with a 2 minute(or more) cooldown.(Not able to have time extended via legacies, perhaps shorter cooldown time though), in practice if you reach a "Burn Phase" with a boss fight this and it's magnitude would really assist in the burn phase, and in general I would like to see as part of this buff revamp for Fellowship Brother to be changed or removed as it's pointless with this change and it's not fun to have what feels like a mandatory Legendary skill. Also The buff Muster Courage really really needs to work even when silenced by fear effects, after all isn't that what mustering courage is?
3. Other Revamps- I think it's high time Captains got a resource system. Nothing too extravagent since you wants existing Captains to still feel comfortable with the class but the proposed Idea would be something like a 3 point resource system. Using skills that normally Battle Ready you(Battle-Shout, Shadows Lament) will give you a resource point, maybe add a resource point gain or chance to gain on a couple of other existing skills. Resources will unlock the ability to use the main Defeat Event Cry abilites, and maybe a couple of other abilities like Words of Courage or Blade of Elendil at greater effects the higher your resources are. At one point they will do a standard magnitude, two points have greater magnitude, and three points even greater magnitude than two points and an extra effect like WoC doesn't consume morale and the next words of courage used on the target will stack a second HoT or a three point Rallying Cry Has a much more powerful HoT component to match the strength of the Captains other HoT skills(Honestly I never knew why they never improved the horrific morale HoT component of Rallying Cry). I think Devastating Blow and Pressing Attacks need to be unlocked in general from the current gating system and made into more reliable to use skills, a resource system that relies on luck via criticals with the right skills or killing mobs(especially when doing a boss fight where there are no mob adds during the fight) is antiquated and kind of punishing to the player, we never for sure know that they skills we need are going to be available when we need them. Oh and please reduce Time of Needs self damage to at least 5% of max morale or less, it's a skill I want to use a lot more but rarely get to since when I usually find myself in an actual time of need my morale in too low to afford the cost, or even better remove the morale cost altogether!
#1 A lot of people want Heralds to be revamped. This won't be good if Heralds become super complicated. My Herald worked fine in Moria, but it took me a long time to learn to use him.
#2 Some of our legacies are essential and the rest are uninteresting. Spreading out those essential bonuses instead of lumping them into legacies might make our choices more exciting.
I think most people want them relevant. A walking banner that deals common damage is not exactly a world beater in endgame.
Originally Posted by Finnway
I don't know how you got "super complicated" out of this (or, indeed, how they could be "super complicated"). In any case, they can be as simple as a skirmish soldier or as complicated as a warsteed. Or, indeed, anywhere in-between.
1.) I see a major problem in the fact, that what buffing you make is not depending on what are you traited to do. For example, a HoH captain can give the same bonuses to fellow damage as a LoM or LtC one.
But this is a very delicate aspect in the same time, I wouldn't like seeing the 'Brother skills' moved into the cap traits.
I would like to see some ideas on this one.
2.) Major problem two is: The functonality of our legendary skills are really close to each other, making every combination lack a lot.
It would be good having iDoME turned to a skill, since everyone is slotting it.
So there would be an empty space for a legendary trait. I say, be it useful for tanking! Such as a 4 points of morale per vitality and +25% threat generation or +xduration for force agro skills or anything useful for tanking would fit here real well.
3.) 'Bearer skills' plus the change to 'Master Of War' - as I stated above... :P
(I only want everyone reading it, not spamming the forum thread with useless information. :))
I've done a lot of thinking (and reading posts) since this thread started, and I think I've got it down to my top 3 things to work on.
1) Trait Lines (this is the big one for me)
Hands of Healing:
I'm relatively happy with the overall makeup of the Hands of Healing trait line, but I find that I rarely use Strong Voice or Deeds Before Words (to say nothing of Strength From Within), and I think the overall trait line needs buffing. These traits are (to me) the least powerful of the HoH traits (I don’t often have power problems that can’t be solved by either switching to song-brother for a minute or so or drinking a power potion, and from what I’ve heard from Bullroarer, it will be easier to avoid running out of power with the changes to power pools and fate) so Strong Voice doesn’t help me in healing as much as it does in tanking, and Inspire feels underwhelming even with Deeds Before Words traited. Because of this, I cut these two traits out because I want to run either 2 yellow or 2 red traits.
This makes me sad because one of the unique things about captains that I love is that we can heal through melee attacks. I think this fits the “feel” of the Captain class in that it features us in the thick of battle leading by example to rally the troops (after all, one set of skills is called “Lead by Example”, and I would like to have this set Captain healing apart from Minstrels, Rune-Keepers, and Lore-masters. I also think that due to the combination of how Captains sometimes trait red for more crits, and then use these increased crits to get off more Rallying Cries, there needs to be an increased incentive to run 5 (or more!) Hands of Healing traits.
To provide an incentive to run in Hands of Healing (with the capstone trait), I would propose an increased critical chance on our healing skills (both melee and vocal) for each HoH trait equipped (Rune-keepers have similar buffs to healing/damage for each trait of a particular line they have equipped. I believe Burglars also have something like this in their trait lines). I would place this at the 4-trait bonus for HoH and move the current 4-trait bonus (+10% Melee Skills Healing) to the 3-trait position. This would get rid of the current 3-trait bonus (-10% Healing Power Costs), which I would roll into Strong Voice by adding an additional bonus to the trait (-1% Healing Power Costs for each HoH trait equipped) and changing the original percentage on Strong Voice from -8% to -10%.
I would then replace the 10% Inspire Healing bonus on the HoH capstone with the ability to make Inspire, Words of Courage, and Rallying Cry stack up to three times. This would also accomplish my goal of making Deeds Before Words more useful.
I would replace Strength From Within with either something to help us buff healing (as in our group’s healing, rather than ours), or changed completely do assist our use of heralds in a group (if heralds were reworked to make them a true alternative to banners). I feel that the current effects of the trait could be better utilized within the Leader of Men trait line.
Lead the Charge:
My biggest complaint with this trait line is that heralds are lousy right now. They don’t do enough damage (in my mind) to make them worthwhile in most situations. I recognize that this impacts all three trait lines to a certain extent, but LtC is more herald-focused than either of our other two trait lines. I’d love to see heralds increased in their abilities and more customizable along the lines of skirmish soldiers. I also feel that one or two skills either need to have cooldowns decreased slightly, or another skill added to keep up a better DPS rotation. I think something should also be done to help us solo a bit better. Questing is sooo slow as a Captain when you need to kill a lot of stuff.
Leader of Men:
I rarely, if ever, tank (I have a Warden for that), but I’m not against the idea of captains tanking. I will leave the most of the suggestions for this trait line to others, aside from the idea that I would move the heal on Muster Courage from the Strength From Within trait to this line to free up the spot in Hands of Healing for something more helpful in that line and to move the -10 second Mark Skills cooldown to all three capstone legendary traits.
Percentages and such for my above ideas could be adjusted to make sure they balance out well, of course.
War: Replace the stat bonuses with Physical and Tactical Mastery and a maybe a little bit of Critical Defence.
Power: Depending on how the changes to fate in U10 impact everybody, this could either remain where it is, or be adjusted to account for power management issues as they come up. I like the banner over all, I think.
Hope: The benefits here just aren’t that useful. I’d trade them for bonuses to Outgoing and Incoming Healing.
3) Legendary Items
I’m tired of buff sticks. Really, really tired of them. Can we find a way to roll these bonuses into…I dunno…a legendary skill? Perhaps make In Defense of Middle Earth a regular skill (it’s not as powerful as it once was, I think) and replace it with a new legendary trait that improves our Tactics skills, Motivating Speech, and Brother skills.
Those are my top three concerns. I’ve read lots of other great ideas from other Captains. Hopefully we won’t end up with an unrecognizable class when all is done and said. :)
Set the herald to Passive/Assist and it takes care of itself (which should probably be the default setting, the other AI settings are atrocious for the herald).
Originally Posted by Finnway
I agree with most ideas in Thai thread especially the dps, herald and tanking aspects of the class.
What I would like to see changes is some of the combat animations. They kind of feel sort of lack luster compared to other classes. I mean if I use defensive strike followed by blade of elendil and then inspire they all use the same lunge type
Animation and it looks kind of ridiculous. I like the hard overhand swipe but the lunge feels and looks weak. When I think of wielding a two-hander I don't really picture trying to forward lunge as much as trying to put all my weight in a heavy attack. Maybe it would look better with a halberd....?
I play a warden, champ, minstrel and captain and in my opinion the captains combat animations are the least inspiring.
Heal tank in Red Line like an OG for 3 mans
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
On a bigger note, please destroy heralds. Revamp herald oriented Red line traits into increased DPS percentages, the yellow one for +50% noble mark threat gen, and the blue herald trait tied to fighting withdrawal, making it a fellowship wide threat reduction except for whoever has current aggro. Sort of an aggro swap with Forced Routing Cry + Traited FW.
While i agree with other posts about changes (moors set to PvE for example) i wanted some things that are new.
1) I find often i get defeat responses and cant use them (yes even rallying cry) because they are all on cooldown.
I'd like to see a new defeat response (or 2?). The 1 my simple mind came up with was to "buff a buff":
a. A defeat response skill that increases fellows current buff i.e. 1.5(??) x crit/parry/focus/see below buff for 20 secs(??)
with a 1:30 min cooldown meaning in a boss fight its kinda of timely when u use it (right before OB s for example) This
skill is the main 1 id like to see added the rest are just throwing ideas out there
b. A defeat response skill that restores or gives 1 of the following phys mastery/tact mastery/ mitigations/ FATE/
power/icpr/ or icmr (open to suggestions)
2) A new buff (or 2). Just to freshen things up
a. A buff to phys/tact masteries has been suggested so maybe 1 type of mitigations.
b. A buff(or defeat response) to a specific class's skill i.e a champs blade get s a damage buff or costs 0 power
3) A second ranged attack that s a buff/debuff with 10 sec duration and long CD if this skill is too powerful
A cry that does some damage maybe a DoT and a buff/debuff depending on the mark revealing/telling/noble
Revealing- restores power as well as morale or 2(1.5??)x morale as normal returned or both
Telling- 2(1.5??)x damage is obvious so how about mitigation debuff or icmr buff for fellows
Noble- transfers 3% of threat of nearby allies every 3 seconds for 10 secs
All 3 of these ideas can be further impacted by new LI legacies or traitlines. I'm sure tweaking of these ideas is needed maybe the values or x% were too high or low but thats what the techies are for
What about situations where we use Time Of Need?
I say: Make this skill cause your next defeat-response skill grant an other defeat-response.
This would be good, because:
-This skill is one, that most captains don't really care about, neither they chose the legacy to decrease it's cooldown - it is just ignored.
-It would come in handy in situations like a boss fight, where you need to heal, want to keep up War Cry, but you just cannot get a defeat response.
I use Time of Need quite a lot actually, and I think it's fine as it is.
Originally Posted by Berf
Overall, I'm happy with my Captain being a Jack of all trades, master of none. Except the power issue when tanking in LoM, specifically using Sheild-brother. Technically, I can afford to use less skills in either Blade-brother or Song-brother, but not Shield-brother because I have to use all skills to maintain threat. Buffing LoM Captains with perma-threat without doing anything is obviously out of the question, so I suggest the following:
1) Leader of Men's capstone add (at most) +25% chance power return to Improved Defensive Strike, increased it to 50% chance, on enemies procced with Light of Elendil.
Or increase power return by a percentage.
Or decrease Improved Defensive Strike's cooldown.
2) Leader of Men's capstone improve Vitality to increase morale by 4 or 5 per Vitality instead of 3. This is so that tanking Captains have the choice of using Song-brother instead of Shield-brother. Song-brother effectively regen power that tanking Captains so sorely missed and able to better self-heal (+threat) the extra morale pool.
3) Leader of Men's trait or traitline bonus gives Blade of Elendil's crit to proc defeat event for Shadow's Lament. Additional threat is very much welcomed, indeed.
Big kudos to you RockX for coming along and asking for our opinions.
I just want to agree with many of my colleague Captains on what I feel the issues are.
Overall us Cappy's are in a good place IMO and I don't think you have a huge task in front of you compared to some of your fellow class devs.
Like most classes our legendaries need a pass. In SoA days IDOME used to be LEGENDARY with a capital WOW. Now, not so much. Perhaps increasing the aura and giving a scaling mitigation or mastery buff? Or tie a buff related to the number of steps down a trait line you have gone into it?
Heralds. Lacklustre. I think they need completely revamped or just ditched. Is it possible to get the ginger haired step child of the Skirmish soldier system implemented for us Cappy's? If there was more customisation, giving more noticeable performance differences, more of us would use our Heralds. Poor Jeeves has been sitting at home polishing his sword for years now, his flag is more useful to me in a fight and his ego has been destroyed as a result. Where is your duty of care to these poor creatures?
The twitter chat seemed to suggest that classes are getting re focussed down definite routes and I hope this doesn't mean us Cappy's, who all enjoy the jack of all trades, have a core attraction the class has removed.
I would like each trait line to have a greater positive effect on the role it is supposed to fulfill, but also a negative effect on the others. Which will allow us to balance builds. So I know if I go full red, my DPS will be smoking but I won't heal for jack and I will be squishier. Also if I go full blue, I can main heal but again squishy and feel like I am armed with a banana. With obviously differing levels of traits giving us the jack of all trades builds we more than any other class love playing with. Let us make the choice and make the choice worth making. We all retrait regularly now anyway, make it fun and really worthwhile doing so. As other have pointed out the difference in each traitline in going capstone is just not worth it at the moment. Make it worth it and give us a headache at the bard.
DPS. As others have said the "D" is actually fine, it is the "PS" we need to look at. Our damage needs to flow better.
I would like, and have always liked, a power return mark. We have morale return, increase damage and threat increase. Seems natural to give us a reliable power return. Or a power return on-defeat skill (both if I am greedy). Take the traited power return away from RC and give us a pure power return cry. Let us choose situationally what is best.
One last thing, Itemisation. These new Gold class items are awesome but they aren't hold onto your socks awesome. They seem to be on a very tiny percentage drop rate. With a percentage so low I would expect rather than being perhaps 4% - 5% better than other items, they should be 10% - 15%. Make them REALLY desirable, like new keyboard every 3 weeks due to drool desirable. Frankly I can live without any of them, none of them make me want to get on the hamster wheel and pump my wee paws round and round until I get my cookie. Back in the SoA days we had stuff like the Captains Arm. Drool worthy stats, incredible model. I ran that Dungeon what must have been hundreds of times to get me one of those and I remember punching the air when I did. These new legendary items should re-kindle that and at the moment they frankly don't! If I got one don't get me wrong, I would be pleased and smile, however there is no chance of me losing control. I want to worry about defecating on my chair when the loot window pops up.
I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with for us
I had a whole nice reply typed up and the forum ate it...
anyway, hope im not late to the party.
the gist of my post was that im happy as-is. i love the essence of the captain class.
i only ask that you do not force us to choose a role BEFORE encounters. let us continue to be the gap-fillers/hybrids we are meant to be.
Please don't remove the Heralds. It's a class-defining aspect that I think should be preserved. As it is now, if you don't like using them then you can use a standard banner. More options are better.
I think this has been brought up a bunch of times already, but I'll repeat it anyway: skill animation length seems to be a a really big part of the problem with the class feeling "slow". If anything, DPS Captains have it best off, since they get so much -% Attack Duration. Skill uses are incredibly sluggish when we aren't using Blade-Brother.
This can be pretty annoying when trying to tank or heal, particularly as most skills don't seem to apply their effects until after the animation is over. It feels like we've got hidden channels on our skills sometimes, the delay is so long. Really unpleasant when I notice a mob breaking aggro and running after a squishy, then I have to wait for the long Grave Wound animation to finish before I can cast Threatening Shout and then wait for the long Threatening Shout animation to finish before the threat is actually applied. Words of Courage seems to be even worse for this, for whatever reason.
I've seen that Kelsan gave his classes a bit of an idea at what areas he was focusing on. I was wondering if you could do the same here. There are many different Captain playstyles suggested here, but you have the overall picture.
Rock, please do whatever it takes to prevent this heartache from happening:
The 2H LIs really need a fifth relic slot (and another type of relics) to control those stats.
Originally Posted by dietlbomb
Also, we need some item to delete minor legacies (reducing the total number of legacies on the LI) so we can use additional Crystal of Remembrances on them to bring UP our major count to a potential 7/7.
Man, it's going to be tough to beat all the responses so far. a few twists to the current thoughts here that I haven't seen yet.
1) Tanking. Please don't kill what my captain is just to make him a better tank. I like how my cappy feels...if you have to reduce his cappy potential to give him tanking skills, you can keep them. My guard (got 2) can tank just fine. wardens can do it too...there's plenty of tanky classes out there. if you can buff us mildly without limiting our captain potential, then thats fine.
2) DPS. Everyone knows we need DPS. What hasn't been touched on allot is that prior to 60, we need it ALLOT. honestly.. my cappy post 60 isn't bad. he could use a mild DPS boost. pre 60....it sucks. and Im being nice. I kid you not, I used to play my low level cappy to relax at night, cause he would put me to sleep. no joke. the 40's is a bear. buffing stuff like shdows lament will do low level cappies NO GOOD. unless.....
you drop shadows lament to lvl 35 or 40. its the perfect spot for it, as we really don't get any DPS increases at that point. and whatever buffs you give to increase DPS overall, do it EARLIER. captains start to fall behind in the mid 30's, so the DPS increase should start in the early 30's and ramp up through the 40's.
3) Heralds. yeah...everyone touches on this one. I actually LIKE them...but it is really hard to use them. currently im running archer with my pet traits maxed, and its a bit better then without...but not much. there needs to be a clearer distinction between the herald and the banner. I hate to say it...but perhaps we need to make the herald our "DPS" option. make the herald put out great DPS. give us a tanking herald that buffs our threat and can off tank a mob (real mob, not trash) if needed. give us a herbalist herald that can increase our healing. make heralds and banners separate abilities that can be used together. take the party buffs and put them on the banners, and make our heralds what give us our specialization.
healing cappys can have the heal herald, tank cappies can have the tank herald, damage cappies get the ghost. that makes our heralds worth using, something that actually impacts our class, and allows us to increase our specialization without buffing our other two focus areas.
that was wild brainstorming, but we really need to have the herald a valued part of our skill set. if we keep trying to balance the herald vs. the banner, were never going to get anywhere. they should be separate and important in their own. or we should just kill them altogether. I prefer to keep. but, as long as I don't feel like im missing something with them gone, im OK with that too.
Just wanted to shoot a quick thank you for swapping our agility with fate on pvp sets.
With these recent Fate changes I want to say I think you and the other developers seem to be on track to effectively end the existence of the support role. By making power so easily managed on an individual basis, you have effectively ended any real need for "power support" in groups, and ultimately that harms the usefulness of Captains and Loremasters. It also removes a layer of strategic depth your gameplay used (emphasis on used) to have.
Originally Posted by RockX
So I hope you and the rest of the turbine staff reconsider these recent fate changes in update 10. In my opinion they did a lot more harm than good.