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  1. #1
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    What is and what isn't cheating?

    We all love to point finger and tell one another that this is ok while that isn't.. Fact is, cheating is cheating.

    I know a certain burg that many are accusing of cheating even now, after this last update when they supposedly fixed the macro issues. Maybe they are cheating and maybe they aren't. The problem is, once caught cheating, then you are likely to wear that tag from that point on.

    I believe we are all a part of the problem. As a community, we don't have defined standards of play and even support and encourage cheating to a degree.

    Example: Multi-boxing, even the Devs have stated it's poor sportsmanship, but how often do you see others supporting boxers at the many camps we have?
    How many times have you seen someone call another player who isn't winning all his or her battle a poor player/noob/sorry?
    When I beat someone easily, my first thought is there's someone who isn't exploiting their advantages or hasn't learned how to yet.

    I also find it amusing that some of us who consider ourselves the most honorable players think it's ok to cheat just a little. Folks, if you use Vent, Teamspeak, Mumble or any third party program during your time in-game. Your breaking the rules, especially if it's being used to manipulate conditions in the Moors.

    If your logged into both sides (Creep and Freep) on multiple accounts (spying), your cheating/being a poor sport. Anyone who listens to and acts on any information you give them while double logged is just as guilty of cheating/poor sportsmanship as the person that is doing the spying.

    Bottom line, there is so much of this stuff that goes on that there are very, very few of us who aren't guilty to some degree. Just realize, that in your haste to get that coveted "High Rank", that if you have been caught out and out cheating at some point, then to most the community, that rank really isn't going to mean anything. Not that it means anything anyway other than more skills for Creeps and Battlefield promotions for all.
    Ronnug - The Blueberry Reaver on Gladden
    I don't feel a thing when dieing ingame. The only time I really mind is when the rez is on the other side of the map.

  2. #2
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    The old adage goes "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying."


    The burg question I'm kinda torn on guns. I know there is a lot of "nuances" that people have used over the course of time to gain an advantage. Everywhere from people to getting on platforms others can't reach to broken mechanics. The boxer is another issue, I get tired of seeing folks group up with him to give him heals and when he leads a raid. The only saving grace is he has to be the worst hunter on gladden. That is the only reason more folks aren't totally outraged by his presence, if he blew folks up like he should then you would have mass outcry. I do like how folks say they don't support it but will stand around an area where he is at, heal him, or rez him. They are just as bad as he is for supporting, protecting, or leaching off him, whatever you want to call it. The teamspeak issue there is folks who like to chat with friends while on and some of them play on otherside and others don't. You pretty much can tell if someone is spying on against you and who the ones are that you shouldn't trust.

  3. #3
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    That hobbit burg you're reffering to, if we think of the same person, isn't macroing. He's from my kin, I've talked to him a lot, inspected his gear and know exactly what he's capable of. And as far as I've seen, he's put all his survivability into damage, and if you might have noticed, he dies pretty easily. But hits like a freight train. True glass cannon build. And since I also have a burg, I know what I'm talking about.

    And regarding cheating...

    Boxers, clubbers, macroers, spies... to me, they all go to same category - cheaters.
    If you can't play this game without cheating, you don't belong here. Go play call of duty and cheat there.

    Many people defend those boxers, how ToS aren't broken, blah blah blah, but greed for money has put Turbine on the wrong path, allowing this abomination to continue.

    I've been badmouthed because I refused to join raid in which that boxer was, with arguments like: "Well, creeps also have that BA boxer".
    Two wrongs don't make a right!
    I'd rather go solo and die 50 times than to join with a cheater.

    Just as your sig goes Ron: I don't feel a thing when dieing ingame. The only time I really mind is when the rez is on the other side of the map.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mucica View Post
    That hobbit burg you're reffering to, if we think of the same person, isn't macroing. He's from my kin, I've talked to him a lot, inspected his gear and know exactly what he's capable of. And as far as I've seen, he's put all his survivability into damage, and if you might have noticed, he dies pretty easily. But hits like a freight train. True glass cannon build. And since I also have a burg, I know what I'm talking about.
    Don't know who's in your kin and if the burg your referring to is the one I have in mind or not. The point I was trying to make isn't that he is now cheating but rather he carry's that stigma because of past actions.

    I know some good folks who simply came out and tried an exploit just once or twice to see what it would do out of curiosity and are now labeled as exploiters and cheaters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bennybo View Post
    The boxer is another issue, I get tired of seeing folks group up with him to give him heals and when he leads a raid. The only saving grace is he has to be the worst hunter on gladden. That is the only reason more folks aren't totally outraged by his presence, if he blew folks up like he should then you would have mass outcry. I do like how folks say they don't support it but will stand around an area where he is at, heal him, or rez him. They are just as bad as he is for supporting, protecting, or leaching off him, whatever you want to call it.
    Please don't take this as supporting the boxer and you nailed it by pointing out those who support that boxer as being just as guilty but labeling him as "the worst hunter on gladden" sorta supports my argument. Perhaps he's not actually that bad at playing the hunters because he isn't using a third party program to control his characters like other boxers have in the past.

    I don't know the person playing the boxers on either side but let's say they aren't old and un-impressionable like some of us. Being called out as a bad player over and over could entice someone young and impressionable to try things that maybe they shouldn't so all the Cool-kids will think they are good at boxing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bennybo View Post
    The teamspeak issue there is folks who like to chat with friends while on and some of them play on otherside and others don't. You pretty much can tell if someone is spying on against you and who the ones are that you shouldn't trust.
    Again, if you read the TOS, you'll see where third party programs aren't allowed. Technically speaking, any use of a third party program is in violation.

    With that said, It's pretty obvious that these rules are overlooked when it comes to voice chat programs along with many other programs. I'm not saying your cheating if you use a voice chat program but there are those who abuse it. Again, what's cheating and what isn't?
    Last edited by DaxMaxtor; Jan 28 2014 at 11:25 AM.
    Ronnug - The Blueberry Reaver on Gladden
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  5. #5
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    I don't try to go around and judge folks at how bad they are because I know I am far from a good WL/reaver/warg. The only reason I say that about the hunter is because if you are trying to get an obvious advantage by boxing then you deserve all ridicule that comes your way. The person who is doing it I am pretty sure has been around longer than I have. I personally don't know him. There are folks who like to go around and ridicule folks by calling them bad players who are a blight on the community but that is another issue for a different thread.

    I really don't care if the "cool kids" think I'm bad or not. I try to do my best through my inherent lag from my old laptop so I'm not a hindrance to any group I join up with and then if they don't want me then I'll just run solo on my warg or go play something else. I think that becomes more of a social issue with folks trying to fit in. Then there is also some of these "cool kids" that prob don't have a real life that get their 15 minutes of being all that out of a video game. Everyone wants to fit in no matter who they are, so I can see where some folks get caught up in trying to do as someone who has been around longer than they have says. I like to take advice from folks who have played this game longer than I have to get tips on how to be a better player on my toons but some of the clicky kind of stuff that goes on is just ridiculous.

    Any of that above is no reason to start cheating they just need to find better friends. They are there, I've met plenty of friendly of people on here both creep and freep side. I do kinda get a kick of seeing keldarah or ethallaf getting called out as a raid target cause they are in my kin on freep side. I get ribbing from then when I got over there to chat with those guys about having them called out as targets too much but it's all in good fun.

    I know you always speak of the rivalries that make up the moors and really get the combat going when someone gets the blood lust flowing and will stop at nothing to wipe his rival. Some folks just forget that it's just a game with a lot of quirks and stuff that is extremely hard to replicate real life physics out of a bunch of 1s and 0s. There is always gonna be something buggy and for those looking for an edge there will always be someway to skirt by something. It's fun to get the other side to rage log after we steamroll them across the map wherever they try to hide. Everyone just needs to remember when they got the focus fire going and heals working good that it happens to both sides at one time or another no reason to go crying about stacking or whatever. That is when you look for your strategic advantage or take what you can. That is why in my opinion that creep side has the best leaders because for years spidey, grog, tarv and them have been working with limited resources. There is also the pleasure of interrupting some freep pve and other little things like that when you can't just out right beat them down. It's always the little things that make the best moments.


    Sorry for the wall of text I had some free time on my hands. lol

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennybo View Post
    I don't try to go around and judge folks at how bad they are because I know I am far from a good WL/reaver/warg. The only reason I say that about the hunter is because if you are trying to get an obvious advantage by boxing then you deserve all ridicule that comes your way. The person who is doing it I am pretty sure has been around longer than I have. I personally don't know him. There are folks who like to go around and ridicule folks by calling them bad players who are a blight on the community but that is another issue for a different thread.

    I really don't care if the "cool kids" think I'm bad or not. I try to do my best through my inherent lag from my old laptop so I'm not a hindrance to any group I join up with and then if they don't want me then I'll just run solo on my warg or go play something else. I think that becomes more of a social issue with folks trying to fit in. Then there is also some of these "cool kids" that prob don't have a real life that get their 15 minutes of being all that out of a video game. Everyone wants to fit in no matter who they are, so I can see where some folks get caught up in trying to do as someone who has been around longer than they have says. I like to take advice from folks who have played this game longer than I have to get tips on how to be a better player on my toons but some of the clicky kind of stuff that goes on is just ridiculous.

    Any of that above is no reason to start cheating they just need to find better friends. They are there, I've met plenty of friendly of people on here both creep and freep side. I do kinda get a kick of seeing keldarah or ethallaf getting called out as a raid target cause they are in my kin on freep side. I get ribbing from then when I got over there to chat with those guys about having them called out as targets too much but it's all in good fun.

    I know you always speak of the rivalries that make up the moors and really get the combat going when someone gets the blood lust flowing and will stop at nothing to wipe his rival. Some folks just forget that it's just a game with a lot of quirks and stuff that is extremely hard to replicate real life physics out of a bunch of 1s and 0s. There is always gonna be something buggy and for those looking for an edge there will always be someway to skirt by something. It's fun to get the other side to rage log after we steamroll them across the map wherever they try to hide. Everyone just needs to remember when they got the focus fire going and heals working good that it happens to both sides at one time or another no reason to go crying about stacking or whatever. That is when you look for your strategic advantage or take what you can. That is why in my opinion that creep side has the best leaders because for years spidey, grog, tarv and them have been working with limited resources. There is also the pleasure of interrupting some freep pve and other little things like that when you can't just out right beat them down. It's always the little things that make the best moments.


    Sorry for the wall of text I had some free time on my hands. lol
    Well said! If everyone shared this play-style, how fun would it be?
    Ronnug - The Blueberry Reaver on Gladden
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaxMaxtor View Post
    Again, if you read the TOS, you'll see where third party programs aren't allowed. Technically speaking, any use of a third party program is in violation.
    Actually, it's in the CoC, not the ToS. The ToS is basically a contract Turbine has its players sign to strip them of any rights to sue and basically absolve Turbine and its parent company of any legal liability. What you're referencing is found in the CoC:

    18. You may not create, post, use or distribute any utilities, emulators or other third party software tools without the express written permission of Turbine (including, without limitation, macroing programs, botting programs, server emulators, client hacks, map hacks, and data gathering utilities).
    There are many third party programs that Turbine has expressed written permission such as gaming mice, gaming keyboards, and LUA programs. Also, though I haven't found them explicitly list keystroke programs (which are used by most to box) given their stance on boxing and the fact that they seem to be quite exhausted having to answer the same question so many times. Boxing is a completely different thing than macroing/botting which involves unattended gameplay. I can't recall the last time I boxed, but I certainly don't view it as cheating. Turbine says it's okay so basically anyone can do it if they wanted to. The boxing hunter certainly doesn't bother me. He's fairly easy enough to kill, and if it takes him boxing to get a freep raid together, I'll gladly form up to do battle as opposed to a less desirable outcome such as fighting ungrouped freeps at lug backdoor who refuse to remove it from their eyesight.
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  8. #8
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    I personally kinda ###### they let boxers slide at least in fighting. Gathering grindy materials I can sympathize with someone strickly on the fact I hate grinding. That is nothing more than having an extra account in your group and having them follow you around while you do the work. That can be game breaking in the fact that say you could farm rare items in game or whatever. If someone is willing to spend all their time doing that then more power to them I guess. As far as our hunter boxer I do agree with vic on the fact that at least someone can gather up the freep masses without having some sense of entitlement(or so it seems). As much as folks didn't like Fenore, attitude/influence on new freeps aside, he would rally all the newbie freeps together when needed. I do hate it though when there is an even matched group that we could have great fights with and then bam the boxer oneshots a WL at the right moment and then the tides turn. I guess it's just part of the ebb and flow but I would much rather lose to skill of playing or tactics than something that is at least ostracized by the pvp community. Maybe it's just the stigma attached to him, I don't really know, but he has caused a lot of good groups and action because of everyone wanting to kill him lol.

  9. #9
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    My understanding on TeamSpeak is it doesn't interface with lotro therefore it isn't a third-party program which would break CoC. It's no different than using in-game voice for PvE, it doesn't control your characters or make them do anything, and it doesn't by the existence of the program give you advantage. Do I think it's a good idea for freeps and creeps to communicate while fighting each other? Mixed feelings - I guess that comes down to their individual integrity on not giving away their side just to get infamy/renown for kinnies/friends.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyrn View Post
    Actually, it's in the CoC, not the ToS. The ToS is basically a contract Turbine has its players sign to strip them of any rights to sue and basically absolve Turbine and its parent company of any legal liability. What you're referencing is found in the CoC:



    There are many third party programs that Turbine has expressed written permission such as gaming mice, gaming keyboards, and LUA programs. Also, though I haven't found them explicitly list keystroke programs (which are used by most to box) given their stance on boxing and the fact that they seem to be quite exhausted having to answer the same question so many times. Boxing is a completely different thing than macroing/botting which involves unattended gameplay. I can't recall the last time I boxed, but I certainly don't view it as cheating. Turbine says it's okay so basically anyone can do it if they wanted to. The boxing hunter certainly doesn't bother me. He's fairly easy enough to kill, and if it takes him boxing to get a freep raid together, I'll gladly form up to do battle as opposed to a less desirable outcome such as fighting ungrouped freeps at lug backdoor who refuse to remove it from their eyesight.
    Thanks for the clarification. I have to admit, I'm not that analytical and haven't read the ToS or CoC in their entirety. However, that doesn't mean we can't draw lines when it comes to unsporting game play or cheating.

    This isn't just about Boxing in itself. Vic, you and I have both witnessed unsporting game play and cheating. We have both seen situations where individuals used Vent/Teamspeak/Mumble to give them an advantage in the Ettenmoors. Without calling anyone out, we know that we have or have had spies in or out of group that relayed information to the other side. We've seen out of group individuals reset bosses as we attempted to take a Keep, just to grief the group. We have seen six Burgs boxed in a way that would be impossible for someone to do without third party programs to control them.

    I could go on with examples of things that could be considered cheating or poor sportsmanship forever and someone else could come back and give justification as to why it isn't cheating but what's the point?

    I'll use the Boxers as an example. A new player logs in and starts doing the beginner quest. Suddenly a 4-boxer pops out of stealth and kills them in the Slug pits and keeps doing this to the point it makes it impossible for the new player to do any of these quest.
    The new player calls out and gets help from a couple of ranked players who kill the boxer. The Boxer then calls out and 4 Cappies show up and they continue to farm the slug pits until everyone either logs off or a Raid is formed (rinse and repeat).

    And I'm sorry, but if you're Boxing and at any camp, be it the Steps, Rez or at the top of a Keep, two shotting lowbies, that is exploiting a decisive advantage and not fair play. Doesn't matter if Ranked player are able to kill you or not..

    Seriously, is this the type of PvP we really want? Who can out exploit advantages over the other?

    The basic design for Player vs Player in this game is there (Capture the Flag) but as Poopies likes to point out, "too many players don't want to die in a pvp zone" and as a community we overlook and justify all those who exploit those advantages.

    We'll never stop the exploiting all together but with just a little peer pressure, we could certainly curve it.
    Last edited by DaxMaxtor; Jan 29 2014 at 01:07 PM.
    Ronnug - The Blueberry Reaver on Gladden
    I don't feel a thing when dieing ingame. The only time I really mind is when the rez is on the other side of the map.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DaxMaxtor View Post
    And I'm sorry, but if you're Boxing and at any camp, be it the Steps, Rez or at the top of a Keep, two shotting lowbies, that is exploiting a decisive advantage and not fair play. Doesn't matter if Ranked player are able to kill you or not..
    What if you're a high ranking, non-boxing BA and can two shot freeps with no audacity? Does it matter then if a ranked player is able to kill you or not?


    Quote Originally Posted by DaxMaxtor View Post
    Seriously, is this the type of PvP we really want? Who can out exploit advantages over the other?
    PvP in the moors has always been rock-paper-scissors to some extent, it's just that the HD expansion has made it that much more noticeable.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaxMaxtor View Post
    The basic design for Player vs Player in this game is there (Capture the Flag) but as Poopies likes to point out, "too many players don't want to die in a pvp zone" and as a community we overlook and justify all those who exploit those advantages.

    We'll never stop the exploiting all together but with just a little peer pressure, we could certainly curve it.
    The problem isn't individual class designs. It's the direction of Turbine's overall design of PvP, and where it is going.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post

    PvP in the moors has always been rock-paper-scissors to some extent, it's just that the HD expansion has made it that much more noticeable.


    The problem isn't individual class designs. It's the direction of Turbine's overall design of PvP, and where it is going.
    I'm not sure I understand your "rock-paper-scissors" analogy?

    Next month is 7 yrs that I've been coming out to the Moors in this game. I knew even then that pvp was a second thought that was only added because of player demand.

    In spite of the lack of interest, one can argue that the Ettenmoors is somewhat a success based on the numbers of folks who do come out. Due at least in part for it's basic design of "Capture the Flag" but mostly due to the interaction of the community. No other MMO has the PvP community that this game has enabled. Love or hate it, the drama has a lot to do with it.

    So if changing the direction of Turbine's overall design for pvp interrupts the way I enteract with the community now, I vote to just leave it alone. I actually enjoy the imbalanced inequalities. It sure makes for some good old fashion pvp drama. Especially when it comes to pointing out the ezmoders.
    Ronnug - The Blueberry Reaver on Gladden
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  13. #13
    If your talking about ardook he's not exploiting. He's talked with me about burg and we have the same dps rotation. They can do that much damage without macroing if you know how to use your skills right and the interrupts to speed up animations. And the fact that devs seemed to of messed up how aim is used in game now. That's why there's huge numbers and all the crit and pos damage on gear now.

    Gwen

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by DaxMaxtor View Post
    I'm not sure I understand your "rock-paper-scissors" analogy?
    Certain classes have clear-cut advantages over other classes. Advantages that have rapidly become more apparent in recent expansions.

    Ex #1: 4 boxed hunters vs. a warg with HIPS on cd. Ex #2: Reaver 1v1 vs. champ. Ex #3: Minstrel heals vs. defiler heals

    Some classes are considered OP because they're rocks who can frequently shrug off paper assaults, or they're scissors who can frequently avoid death by rocks.

    Some classes are considered underpowered because they're scissors who can't quite cut through the paper at times.

    For the most part, Turbine's idea of balance has always had ebb and flow tendencies. They don't fix things. They overfix things, or they ignore them.

    (Oh, and when I say classes, this goes for creep and freep classes, not just one side)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    Certain classes have clear-cut advantages over other classes. Advantages that have rapidly become more apparent in recent expansions.

    Ex #1: 4 boxed hunters vs. a warg with HIPS on cd. Ex #2: Reaver 1v1 vs. champ. Ex #3: Minstrel heals vs. defiler heals

    Some classes are considered OP because they're rocks who can frequently shrug off paper assaults, or they're scissors who can frequently avoid death by rocks.

    Some classes are considered underpowered because they're scissors who can't quite cut through the paper at times.

    For the most part, Turbine's idea of balance has always had ebb and flow tendencies. They don't fix things. They overfix things, or they ignore them.

    (Oh, and when I say classes, this goes for creep and freep classes, not just one side)


    The game is supposed to be balanced for raiding not 1v1ing. 1v1ing is interesting when someone limits themselves to their opposition. Last person I fought that did that was clevinger. The RvR balance isn't that bad right now as my limited history in the moors goes, with some creeps(defilers and spiders) needing a helping hand.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennybo View Post
    The game is supposed to be balanced for raiding not 1v1ing. 1v1ing is interesting when someone limits themselves to their opposition. Last person I fought that did that was clevinger. The RvR balance isn't that bad right now as my limited history in the moors goes, with some creeps(defilers and spiders) needing a helping hand.
    Right, but even in raids, you can still see the advantages some classes have over others if the right classes are on at the same time. And yeah, I'd say RvR balance right now is the best it has ever been, it's just really clunky because every freep class can do respectful dps now.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    Certain classes have clear-cut advantages over other classes. Advantages that have rapidly become more apparent in recent expansions.

    Ex #1: 4 boxed hunters vs. a warg with HIPS on cd. Ex #2: Reaver 1v1 vs. champ. Ex #3: Minstrel heals vs. defiler heals

    Some classes are considered OP because they're rocks who can frequently shrug off paper assaults, or they're scissors who can frequently avoid death by rocks.

    Some classes are considered underpowered because they're scissors who can't quite cut through the paper at times.

    For the most part, Turbine's idea of balance has always had ebb and flow tendencies. They don't fix things. They overfix things, or they ignore them.

    (Oh, and when I say classes, this goes for creep and freep classes, not just one side)
    This is actually a very good analogy. What threw me off was your timeline:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    it's just that the HD expansion has made it that much more noticeable.
    This game has been paper, sissors, rock since Sylverest rage quit the game because the Hunter Turret got nerfed. You should of seen Genbo and Aeon's Blender if you think things are OP now (Yea, believe it or not, there was a time when Creeps were OP for an extended period of time, way back then).

    Even as recently as our last expansion, Cappies now don't hold a light to what a Warden could do as far as solo tanking and dps are concerned. While a Cappie can mitigate ungodly amounts of Damage, the class really isn't OP until teamed up with a dps class. Without the dps, it's just one heck of a Tank that would make any real Guardian jealous.

    I have to agree with Phila to an extent. The PvP in this game is actually as balanced as I've seen it in a while. Or it is until the Freeps consistantly learn to exploit the advantages they have. You Freeps are a really fickled bunch.. hehe
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  18. #18
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    Exploiting yes.
    Boxing no.
    Macroing yes.
    Hiding on unreachable rocks yes.
    Skirm buff stacking yes.
    spies yes.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    What if you're a high ranking, non-boxing BA and can two shot freeps with no audacity? Does it matter then if a ranked player is able to kill you or not?
    A bit belated, but I just witnessed something that brought this statement to mind.

    That same BA being played by a single person, who once was a green-ring, getting one-shotted by high ranked Hunters and has played for years now earning that rank, maps into GTR solo to suddenly get popped from stealth by a single player playing his 4 hunters who has farmed what little rank they have. That BA dies in seconds with no chance of killing any of the 4 characters played by the single player.

    Justify it any way you want, but there is nothing sporting or fair about this set of circumstances. There is nothing sporting or fair about an individual being able to produce 4 times the damage as any other single player in the game and just as unfair and unsporting is supporting someone who is exploiting an advantage in this way.
    Ronnug - The Blueberry Reaver on Gladden
    I don't feel a thing when dieing ingame. The only time I really mind is when the rez is on the other side of the map.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by DaxMaxtor View Post
    A bit belated, but I just witnessed something that brought this statement to mind.

    That same BA being played by a single person, who once was a green-ring, getting one-shotted by high ranked Hunters and has played for years now earning that rank, maps into GTR solo to suddenly get popped from stealth by a single player playing his 4 hunters who has farmed what little rank they have. That BA dies in seconds with no chance of killing any of the 4 characters played by the single player.

    Justify it any way you want, but there is nothing sporting or fair about this set of circumstances. There is nothing sporting or fair about an individual being able to produce 4 times the damage as any other single player in the game and just as unfair and unsporting is supporting someone who is exploiting an advantage in this way.
    I wasn't trying to justify boxing, my statement wasn't meant to say that boxing is ever acceptable, because in my mind it's simply not. When I flip flopped, I'd try to put aside differences to help the side that needs help, aka, I will group with boxers if that side still needs numbers and the boxer is in the main raid, but just because I'll be in the same raid as a boxer doesn't necessarily mean I support boxing, if that makes sense.

    Rather, I was trying to say that one-shotting is not very impressive anymore in LOTRO's PvP. It happens too often now. There's so many variables in play that if the stars align once in a while, one-shotting someone or getting one-shot is quite possible. I was playing on brandy with my reaver, came across an LM with no audacity, and literally took 6k off him with ravage->gut punch. Dps is just SO out of whack now, lol. So my point was, one shotting is not exclusive to boxers anymore. If one shotting someone is "exploiting a decisive advantage," half the classes in this game have that advantage now.
    Last edited by Bond007; Feb 01 2014 at 09:06 PM.

 

 

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