The Alliance of Fair Play.

[Glohir]

The Alliance of Fair Play

Hello fellow Freeps and Creeps of Gilrain.

A little while ago Turbine decided to make clubbing a bannable offence.

Since there are still occasionaly some freavertrains around in Gilrain, and some people still like to exploit.. (a creep oneshotter killing creeps because of the cappy exploit).
I thought it might be nice to let Freeps and Creeps who like playing in the moors with fair play unite together in this alliance and stop these exploits and clubbing sessions.
Being in this alliance means:
- You are not participating in any clubbing activities or exploits yourself.
- Once you see someone clubbing or exploiting you make a video/screenshot of it.
- You report the activity in this thread.
- You report the activity to turbine to let them make the next step.

The alliance is for both Freeps and Creeps.

Together, we can make the moors a more fun place for both Freeps and Creeps without exploits and clubbers!

[Squelcher]

I already do all these things, and so does my tribe, and most of creepside's broader player base.

Freepside is another matter.

[WargDingu]

I already do all these things, and so does my tribe, and most of creepside's broader player base.

Same for me.. and I also strongly believe in the statement : what happens in the Moors, stays in the Moors.

There is no difference AT ALL, between freeps and creeps in this matter.

Dingu

[Romper]

Tyrant on top floor bugged me out, I could not move nor turn - very fair! Possibly even exploitative, eh!

It wasnt an exploit, it was karma(not the spider) getting you back for all that illegal ranks you got.

[Dirathalad]

It wasnt an exploit, it was karma(not the spider) getting you back for all that illegal ranks you got.

So are you saying it is acceptable to use exploits/take advantage of bugs against certain people?

[DinThePurple]

[Glohir]

Tyrant on top floor bugged out on me - I could not move nor turn, yet the great advocate of fair play continued attacking! So are exploits deemed acceptable as long as they help the side to which you belong? Do people really subscribe to true fair play, or are we all just hypocrites?

Also, slap on the wrist to Gil for being afk :P

First of all, this is the first time I see this bug on someone, so I didn't know what to expect but it looked like you were just rooted.

Yes it would have been very unfair if I was a spider/BA who would have shot you from a distance, but as you can see in the screenshot, I was in melee range for almost the whole fight, since that's where I get some of my dps from.

I haven't asked for this bug to come on you while we were fighting, I didn't trigger the bug, like some cappies do on purpose with their exploit. And if I did trigger it somehow, please tell me how so I can /bug it.

Since it looked like you were only rooted, I kept fighting while mostly staying in melee range, and didn't think of stopping because I knew I had limited time with gilea comming back from AFK any second.

~Gloh

[Bels_illuminati]

Tyrant on top floor bugged out on me - I could not move nor turn, yet the great advocate of fair play continued attacking! So are exploits deemed acceptable as long as they help the side to which you belong? Do people really subscribe to true fair play, or are we all just hypocrites?

Also, slap on the wrist to Gil for being afk :P

Bit of a petty reply really. We have all died due to lag spikes, disconnects and other related bugs, and we have all killed others during them, whether intentional or not.

Exploits and clubbing are clearly wrong, dying during a loss of control of your character is just part of any online PvP game. It reminds me of the people who moan after they have a reasonable small scale fight at a random location only to be finished off by someone else coming across them.
This is PvP not Hugs v Kisses.


As for the OP's idea it's a solid one, although the key message really just needs to be that the developers now support us and so we can stamp out the cheating at last by reporting the offenders.
It's just a shame it isn't retrospective, although there would be a LOT less freeps to kill after that ban hammer swung on Gilrain.

[Dirathalad]

Bit of a petty reply really. We have all died due to lag spikes, disconnects and other related bugs, and we have all killed others during them, whether intentional or not.

Exploits and clubbing are clearly wrong, dying during a loss of control of your character is just part of any online PvP game. It reminds me of the people who moan after they have a reasonable small scale fight at a random location only to be finished off by someone else coming across them.
This is PvP not Hugs v Kisses.


As for the OP's idea it's a solid one, although the key message really just needs to be that the developers now support us and so we can stamp out the cheating at last by reporting the offenders.
It's just a shame it isn't retrospective, although there would be a LOT less freeps to kill after that ban hammer swung on Gilrain.

Well, I posted that reply because I am seeing mixed messages and contradiction from OP. He is apparently passionate enough about fair play to set up some alliance, yet when presented with a situation in which one could display said passion for fair play by recognising - oh, hey, bloody hell this character is bugged and has been thrown into a situation from which the probability of survival is zero! - I'll back off and try to help resolve the bug by maybe aggroing the tyrant, and then engage again when the bug is resolved and the opponent has a non-zero chance of survival. At least that is what I would have done if I was in OP's position - but we all have our own standards. The problem is - where do we draw the line on what is fair and unfair on a community wide scale and who gets to decide that? Are we just condemning raw, unadulterated exploits/clubbing or will this alliance deal with the more subtle stuff? It's futile, will just cause further fragmentation in the community and it should just be left alone in my opinion.

A lot of people on this server tend to worry too much about politics. People just end up resenting eachother in an environment like this where every single action certain people make is scrutinised intensely and discussed at length with a nice ol' chunck of slander thrown into the mix (e.g. omg clubber scum!). Setting up poxy alliances like this is just a blatant attempt at boosting one's status in the community, and it's a bit pointless really - turbine are the ones with the power. If you see something that seems exploitative just report it, there's no need to be a member of a 'gentleman's club' to do that. If people started to care less about social status and drama and more about just having a fun time in the moors, killing stuff with their mates and letting go of childish grudges against people, then this server would be a more attractive place to be (I've heard the French are leaving?).

[Refer to signature]

Dirac

[affected7]

What dirac is trying to say is despite your FAIR-PLAY thread glohir is that you took advantage of a bug and killed him something not so fair-playish in his eyes.

I have to admit it though, some replies like HE clubbed/multiboxed/exploited/bugged so we must hate him, remind me when i was a kid harassing other ones or doing something that another kid didnt liked and 5 seconds later he was screaming to the teacher please punish him with no results.

I think gilrain community needs to grow up and deal with some situations like most do, there is no need for such an alliance since all of us know which people will be part of it.

Also fair-play isnt something really you can identify, for example Glohirs or Diracs group kills a lonely guy is that fairplay? No and you cant deny it.

Anyway *insert mainstream goodbye*

[Glohir]

Well, I posted that reply because I am seeing mixed messages and contradiction from OP. He is apparently passionate enough about fair play to set up some alliance, yet when presented with a situation in which one could display said passion for fair play by recognising - oh, hey, bloody hell this character is bugged and has been thrown into a situation from which the probability of survival is zero! - I'll back off and try to help resolve the bug by maybe aggroing the tyrant, and then engage again when the bug is resolved and the opponent has a non-zero chance of survival. At least that is what I would have done if I was in OP's position - but we all have our own standards.

Dirac

So what you are actually saying is that if it was turned around, criz and me were taking the op, criz was afk for an unknown time, we got into a fight and I would get rooted by a bug, you would actually try to get rid of the bug knowing criz could come back any second? While we could still fight since we are both melee class. And then with the possibility that if criz got back getting disrespected by a CJ by one of us? (not that criz or me would have cj'ed, but your afk companion is another matter..)

I highly doubt it.. and not because of you because I still like you very much as a player. But because of the fact that 95% wouldn't have done that in the situation given.

[Lazer1331]

LOL glohir talking about cheaters and clubbers yet he joins a clubbing kin, way to go!

[Glohir]

LOL glohir talking about cheaters and clubbers yet he joins a clubbing kin, way to go!

(quoted before someone deletes it.)

Hello there mr. troll, gratz on your first post on these forums.

The tribe I am in does not club or cheat, if they do tell me because I can take action.. The people in my kinship do not club or cheat either. At least not the ones active since I have been in it. Besides.. I haven't joined a kin for quite a while now so idk what you are actually talking about..

[TiberPancake]

So what you are actually saying is that if it was turned around, criz and me were taking the op, criz was afk for an unknown time, we got into a fight and I would get rooted by a bug, you would actually try to get rid of the bug knowing criz could come back any second? While we could still fight since we are both melee class. And then with the possibility that if criz got back getting disrespected by a CJ by one of us? (not that criz or me would have cj'ed, but your afk companion is another matter..)

I highly doubt it.. and not because of you because I still like you very much as a player. But because of the fact that 95% wouldn't have done that in the situation given.

I think the main point he wanted to get across was not, "I wouldn't do the same to you," but the fact that you're trying to start up this fair play thing and yet you was taking advantage of an (unintentional) exploit. If you really cared about fair play you would want to try and set an example to other people, not say "well he'd do it to me so I'll do it to him"

not siding with anyone just sharing my view on this, mind you I really thing there's no need for this thing anyway, most of creepside act like a big gang, so if someone is exploiting or clubbing they'll viciously be tapping F7 as fast as they can to report without being in an alliance to do it

[grapez]

just sharing my view on this..

Please don't.

Dirac must have been ganked like that 1000 times a day to get anywhere close to systematically clubbing or are people here trying to derail the thread?

[TiberPancake]

Please don't.

Dirac must have been ganked like that 1000 times a day to get anywhere close to systematically clubbing or are people here trying to derail the thread?

by the name of this alliance or w/e it is i thoght it also referred to exploits, etc also?

[Juanra]

are people here trying to derail the thread?

I dont know but i think some posts have been deleted/removed because there are some holes in the conversation.

[Squelcher]

Fair play is a subjective term. Some of us are in a position to enforce our views of fair play upon others.

I'm one of the people in that position, and I believe that fair play is something that anyone with a small essence of common (it isn't common here) sense and decency will be able to interpret the concept. Luckily for me I can push my common sense-based (though there are plenty of people who disagree that I possess this rare 'common' sense) view on a large number of people. I don't view it as exploiting to kill a person incapacitated by a glitch when the 'exploiter' is unaware that the target is impaired.

Yeah, I'm arrogant, but also correct, and my view will be shared by pretty much anyone who possesses 'common' sense.

[Dirathalad]

So what you are actually saying is that if it was turned around, criz and me were taking the op, criz was afk for an unknown time, we got into a fight and I would get rooted by a bug, you would actually try to get rid of the bug knowing criz could come back any second? While we could still fight since we are both melee class. And then with the possibility that if criz got back getting disrespected by a CJ by one of us? (not that criz or me would have cj'ed, but your afk companion is another matter..)

I highly doubt it.. and not because of you because I still like you very much as a player. But because of the fact that 95% wouldn't have done that in the situation given.

I'm not the one trying to set up a fair play alliance (basically what Olog said)! When I said "If I was in OP's position", I mean if I too was trying to set up this alliance.

But it's kinda obvious you mean well with this idea, and it's commendable, but in my opinion it is the wrong way to implement a culture of fairness in the community - the last thing we need is more cliques. Also; even if the situation in HH OP didn't happen, I probably still would have opposed this suggestion with equal fervour.

As for the CJ thing, I would never to that to you or Criz since I respect you both as players and you're nice guys (I discourage Gil from doing it to you!).

[Juanra]

in my opinion it is the wrong way to implement a culture of fairness in the community - the last thing we need is more cliques.

You will have to excuse my skepticism but since when are you worried about the Gilrain community?

Please, share with us your ideas about how to implement a culture of fairness in Gilrain, later we can compare them with the things you have done to see if there is any coincidence.

[Squelcher]

I mean seriously who made you our JUDGE?

Anyone can pass judgement on anything. It is up to those being judged to choose whether or not to heed that judgement.

[Tirn]

The thread simply refers to clubbing it should actually define "fair play " . "Clubbing" is now clearly illegal play within the game . It's axiomatic that it's "unfair" Thus that clubbing is unfair need not be stated within the rule to be caught by it . However behaviour that is not illegal may still be deemed unfair . A group of 8 creeps ganking a solo freep or indeed vice versa is in my view obviously "unfair" so on that basis I doubt whether any of you can sign up to such an alliance unless you sit down and carefully examine your gameplay . I once was vociferous in my condemnation about seeing a hunter who had skillfully soloed an op , only to be denied the quest by a cheep attack by several grouped creeps ,told "well it is a pvp zone !!! Did that make what they did "fair". ? Is it fair for a WL to chase a Burg all the way to TA (using store trackers) with a pocket defiler trying to stay out of sight ? Is it fair for a warden to use store trackers to search for and kill wargs ? I see the argument on both sides but let he that is without sin cast the first stone .

Its correct to say that anyone can judge another but it's another thing to say that their opinion would carry any weight or be in the slightest way
persuasive of anything .

The Alliance of Fair Play is an admirable concept but unless both sides agree to what constitutes fair play it's simply and sadly an exercise in futility .

[SpicyMacHaggis]

T I once was vociferous in my condemnation about seeing a hunter who had skillfully soloed an op

I laughed quite hard at this, being a hunter myself i can tell you that it doesnt require any skill to solo an op.

[Tirn]

I laughed quite hard at this, being a hunter myself i can tell you that it doesnt require any skill to solo an op.

I know I have a hunter I was being polite or "fair"

[stoffi]

I already do all these things, and so does my tribe, and most of creepside's broader player base.

Freepside is another matter.

Problem is that a large part of freep side supports various forms of what is now cheating. At least they did before it became illegal.

Good initiative, Glohir.