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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by P0wn View Post
    Finally, though it has been reiterated a plethora of times in these forums, it is clear you do not understand that multi-boxing is NOT botting. One has nothing to do with the other. The former is perfectly acceptable while the latter is against the ToS and EULA. A bot is autonomous while a multi-boxing fellowship/raid is under the complete control of an individual. Each key press carries out one and only one respective key press on each account that is being played.
    'Each key press carries out one and only on erespective key press on each account that is being played'?

    100% of Turbine-approved plugins will allow one single click to issue one single command, to one single character, and not "1 to each" account that you might happen to have logged in from a separate launcher.

    You are obviously using 3rd party software that is against the TOS, to allow yourself to issue more than 1 single command with 1 single click/press.

    If you press the 1 key and your Guardian uses skill x, that's fine.

    If you then tab over to a mini, press the 1 key which uses skill y, that's fine.

    If you're playing your Guardian and have set up a key/combo that allows you to activate a skill on a separate character from your Guardian, you are using 3rd party software that is against the TOS, period.

    Especially when one command activates more than one toon, because then the toons ARE playing automatically. Sure, you set up the commands for them to follow, but you aren't controlling them - a 3rd party program is controlling them in such a way that they (automatically play/)perform the way that you set up your 3rd party program to have them respond to the commands you issue as you control your main toon.

    The ONLY reason multiboxing is allowed is because there is some small chance that multiboxed toons will be on paid-for/might pay at some point accounts.
    What they are 'allowing' is for you to pay them more, and log a toon on and put it on follow.

    Any type of program you're using to 'box'? Bet it ain't a LOTRO plugin - is it?

    Please, do tell us what program(s) you use.
    Last edited by Ithrien; Sep 29 2013 at 04:08 PM.
    [COLOR="#40E0D0"]Turbine does not give out rewards based on the profit factor; because rewards must be earned by completing content.[/COLOR]

  2. #402
    Join Date
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    Marysville, Ohio
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    I had no idea that folks would do this. But, I suppose, that when rules are applied to a system, folks will always figure a way to play them. I'll have to pay attention in the future.
    Llesley Phillips of Silverload, Officer of Nimthos' Protectors of The Blessed Realm

    ~~~~~~ Previous Kin ~~~~~~
    Ceradwen Tinuriel's Oracles of the Golden Woods | Zola's Exile

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Ithrien View Post
    'Each key press carries out one and only on erespective key press on each account that is being played'?

    100% of Turbine-approved plugins will allow one single click to issue one single command, to one single character, and not "1 to each" account that you might happen to have logged in from a separate launcher.

    You are obviously using 3rd party software that is against the TOS, to allow yourself to issue more than 1 single command with 1 single click/press.

    If you press the 1 key and your Guardian uses skill x, that's fine.

    If you then tab over to a mini, press the 1 key which uses skill y, that's fine.

    If you're playing your Guardian and have set up a key/combo that allows you to activate a skill on a separate character from your Guardian, you are using 3rd party software that is against the TOS, period.

    Especially when one command activates more than one toon, because then the toons ARE playing automatically. Sure, you set up the commands for them to follow, but you aren't controlling them - a 3rd party program is controlling them in such a way that they (automatically play/)perform the way that you set up your 3rd party program to have them respond to the commands you issue as you control your main toon.

    The ONLY reason multiboxing is allowed is because there is some small chance that multiboxed toons will be on paid-for/might pay at some point accounts.
    What they are 'allowing' is for you to pay them more, and log a toon on and put it on follow.

    Any type of program you're using to 'box'? Bet it ain't a LOTRO plugin - is it?

    Please, do tell us what program(s) you use.
    While I can't comment on the accuracy of your explanation of multi boxing I'm not real familiar with it in specifics other than seeing them around. Do you really think that Turbine is going to go after another sub demographic to persecute in this game. one that while I assume is small I also assume has whale type spending habits? It might be one of the few profitable demographics left in the game.

  4. #404
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by P0wn View Post
    Yes, as clearing an area of mobs can only be accomplished with multi-boxing. A group most certainly could never pull that off.



    Again, a multi-boxer can "farm" rare drops how exactly? Do multi-boxers get some sort of Tome of Unjust Drop Rate that I don't know about? For the cornering of the AH market to occur, one would need control over the supply of any particular commodity. Since the drop rate is equal for each and every player character in the world, how, exactly, does a multi-boxer prevent other players from receiving said dropped items?



    I would hardly classify that as a valid argument, let alone "good". What you describe is something that is against the ToS and EULA. As such, no one should attempt to offer such a service. As it stands, this does, however, have absolutely nothing to do with multi-boxing.



    Absolutely. There is this uncanny notion that a player might actually hold on to his or her Bounder Tokens for an unspecified period of time, only to dump a ton of tokens at one time. I, for one, woudk certainly not make daily trips to go hand in tokens. So, a surge (or a dip, for that matter) from what you conceive as "the norm" is actually quite normal. Also, please explain exactly how this one famous multi-boxer (I do not know to whom you are referring) made things much faster than should have been possible. Did your server finish first? Did the aforementioned multi-boxer lay claim to such a feat?

    Again, please show me where one can get this new Tome of Increased Drop Rate. Is it a multi-boxer exclusive item?

    Also, if said famous multi-boxer is reading this post, I apologize for not knowing your name or the stories of your immaculate accomplishments.

    [In Closing]

    Finally, though it has been reiterated a plethora of times in these forums, it is clear you do not understand that multi-boxing is NOT botting. One has nothing to do with the other. The former is perfectly acceptable while the latter is against the ToS and EULA. A bot is autonomous while a multi-boxing fellowship/raid is under the complete control of an individual. Each key press carries out one and only one respective key press on each account that is being played.

    If you have any valid claims, I will be happy to entertain further discourse.
    I like what you did here, however everything I spoke about is happening right now on our server, You can claim that multiboxing and botting arent connected but they are and generally go hand in hand with each other. Finally go read page five of this thread with reference to the bounder tokens and then tell me it has had no effect on others PVE wise.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ns-Graph/page5

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrytt View Post
    I like what you did here, however everything I spoke about is happening right now on our server, You can claim that multiboxing and botting arent connected but they are and generally go hand in hand with each other. Finally go read page five of this thread with reference to the bounder tokens and then tell me it has had no effect on others PVE wise.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ns-Graph/page5
    Ok the tokens is a valid point

  6. #406
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4

    Clearing up the Code of Conduct (CoC)

    Quote Originally Posted by k3nn3th View Post
    100% of Turbine-approved plugins will allow one click to issue one single command, to one single character, and not "1 to each" account that you might happen to have logged in from a separate launcher.
    Is there a point to that statement? The LUA plugins used by players are, by definition, PLUG-INS. They only operate within a single instance of a running process. They can not, by DESIGN, not choice of Turbine, affect other running processes as they run within said process that caused them to launch. They cannot operate on their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by k3nn3th View Post
    You are obviously using 3rd party software that is against the TOS, to allow yourself to issue more than 1 single command with 1 single click/press.
    Am I using 3rd-party software? Yes. Is it against the ToS? No. If you look closely at article 18 of the Code of Conduct, you'll note the vagueness it relays.

    18. You may not create, post, use or distribute any utilities, emulators or other third party software tools without the express written permission of Turbine (including, without limitation, macroing programs, botting programs, server emulators, client hacks, map hacks, and data gathering utilities).
    This is intentional, as it protects Turbine having to support such 3rd-party applications but at the same time gives them the power to shut you down should you choose to attempt something against the ToS/EULA. They took the time to explicitly list out the various sorts of applications that are against the EULA/ToS/CoC but left all others implicitly absent. Otherwise, it would be a legal nightmare.

    How many of you (whether you are for or against multi-boxing) have express written permission to use Ventrillo, TeamSpeak, Mumble, or FRAPS? Oh, don't use any of those programs while running LotRO, you say? Well, how about Windows, Mac OSX, or any Linux distro? Guess what? Those are ALL third-party software. DirectX 9-11...third-party.

    So, it is not a question of third-party software being utilized inasmuch as it is about how such software is utilized.

    The software I use to multi-box is called InnerSpace/ISBoxer. By the nature of its very design, you can not automate any activities that any of your characters might carry out. For any or all of your characters to carry out any action, you must explicitly press a key or click a mouse button. Otherwise, nothing happens. Nothing. So, in direct opposition to your statement above, you absolutely can NOT " ...issue more than 1 single command with 1 single click/press." The software simply will not allow this to happen.

    Now, I completely understand that some people disagree with multi-boxing for personal reasons, some endorse it, and others simply do not care one way or the other. To each his/her own. As multi-boxers, we do have the added burden of proving we are not "bots" on occasion by responding to GMs, if they contact us during play. It's a perfectly acceptable burden of proof that we as multi-boxers accept.

    Beyond that, we are not accountable to anyone. Personally, I respond to most everyone who sends me a /tell while gaming (assuming I was not in the middle of a fight, I respond within seconds). Other multi-boxers may just ignore you because they are either sick of being pestered or just don't care to engage. There were plenty of times where I did not engage someone who sent me a /tell while gaming.

    For instance, I have received /tells over the years that have said:

    "Have fun being banned!"

    "Cheater."

    "[INSERT EXPLETIVE STATEMENT HERE]"

    Those, I simply ignore and go about my merry way. However, when I receive /tells saying things like:

    "How do you do that?"

    "How do you have clones?"

    I stop what I'm doing and engage in conversation. I have nothing to hide and it takes a mere few minutes at most of my time to answer any inquiry as clearly and concisely as is possible.

    Sometimes, I have fun with it.

    Random player: "Are you a bot?"

    Me: "Negative. I am a meat Popsicle."

    Regardless, the onus is on us as multi-boxers to respond to GMs if need be. However, we are not required in any fashion to respond to another player. If you do encounter such a multi-boxer during your adventures who does not respond to a genuine, non-offensive /tell, I'm sorry to hear that. It only helps to perpetuate a negative image of multi-boxers.

    If you have any further questions, please do ask.

  7. #407
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    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ithrien View Post
    If you press the 1 key and your Guardian uses skill x, that's fine.

    If you then tab over to a mini, press the 1 key which uses skill y, that's fine.

    If you're playing your Guardian and have set up a key/combo that allows you to activate a skill on a separate character from your Guardian, you are using 3rd party software that is against the TOS, period.
    I ask you to read my reply above, which explains how this is not against the ToS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ithrien View Post
    Especially when one command activates more than one toon, because then the toons ARE playing automatically. Sure, you set up the commands for them to follow, but you aren't controlling them - a 3rd party program is controlling them in such a way that they (automatically play/)perform the way that you set up your 3rd party program to have them respond to the commands you issue as you control your main toon.
    No. The toons are not playing automatically. Therein, I believe lies your confusion. If I press a single key that is broadcast to each running instance, one and only one action is carried out (whatever I have that particular key bound to within each running client/toon may differ, but still only maps to one and only one key).

    When you play the game on one instance, you are using third-party software to do so. When you press a key on the keyboard, LotRO does not just "get the key pressed". That key press is processed by the hardware on your keyboard, then passed on to the Operating System you are running, which then interprets the signal and determines if it is a system-level key/combo or if it should pass on the translated command to the application that has focus.

    Multi-boxing software just adds another keyboard signal processing layer between the OS and the focused application.

    If I press a key and walk away for 10-15 minutes, I will come back to find all of my toons as AFK. If I stay away even longer, I will return to find them all sitting back at the Character Logon screen (just as any solo player would). If I do not initiate an action, nothing will occur. Hence, by definition, no automation is taking place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ithrien View Post
    The ONLY reason multiboxing is allowed is because there is some small chance that multiboxed toons will be on paid-for/might pay at some point accounts.
    What they are 'allowing' is for you to pay them more, and log a toon on and put it on follow.
    I do not purport to be able to state for what reasons WB/Turbine (or any other of the multitude of mainstream MMOs that allow multi-boxing) allows multi-boxing. Nor, should you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ithrien View Post
    Any type of program you're using to 'box'? Bet it ain't a LOTRO plugin - is it?

    Please, do tell us what program(s) you use.
    I believe I clarified what is defined by a "plug-in" above. Please refer to that.

    I stated it above in my previous post and I'll state in here again. The program is called InnerSpace/ISBoxer. Feel free to look it up and learn how it is utilized extensively in many MMOs by many multi-boxers, as well as how it specifically prevents any sort of automation.


    Feel free to ask any further questions.

  8. #408
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    Jul 2009
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    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrytt View Post
    I like what you did here, however everything I spoke about is happening right now on our server, You can claim that multiboxing and botting arent connected but they are and generally go hand in hand with each other. Finally go read page five of this thread with reference to the bounder tokens and then tell me it has had no effect on others PVE wise.
    Hi Aldrytt;

    If you can demonstrate that somehow, a multi-boxer (or any player for that matter) has indeed cornered the market on even a single game item by preventing such item from dropping for any other player, please immediately report that player and file a bug. No such game play should be allowed. You say it is happening, so stop it. The tools exist in-game for you to do so. If, after doing so, you do not see a resolution (i.e. the offending player is not banned), then the only logical inference is that your impression of what is taking place is inaccurate.

    To point two of your post to which I had originally responded, if there is, in fact, a player who is offering to level other players or to sell in-game items to other players for real-world currency or other material goods, report him or her IMMEDIATELY! This sort of conduct is deplorable and should be acted upon.

    To your last point of the original post, I don't know what I can offer as a comment as I'm unsure as to the disadvantage that you are claiming. I have not partaken in the Bounder token activities (aside from passively collecting them during my regular gaming). From what I saw the last time I played, all players received a nice in-game bonus (OOC run speed, damage boost, hope boost, etc.) whenever the total for Bounder token hand-ins reached a certain level. Are you claiming that this multi-boxer got your server to a BONUS faster than you would have liked? I don't see how that could have been your intent with what you posted, so I'll await further clarification on that point.

    Aside from that, I did follow the link you provided. While there may have indeed been a substantial hand-in of tokens at one time, the variables around that hand-in seem unknown (aside from the claim that one multi-boxer handed in 260,000 tokens). My meaning is that there is a reference to the multi-boxer via hearsay that one person did such a hand-in when it could very well have been a kin effort. Since neither the multi-boxer in question, nor anyone from said kinship replied in that thread, it is all speculation at best.

    Given that, I still stand by my original assessment that the individual (if it is indeed just an individual) just sat on the tokens and then handed them in all at once. Without knowing how many toons this supposed player multi-boxed, what his or her take per hour in tokens was, and how he or she earned them (highly-populated field kills, a specific Skirmish, a specific Instance), we'd all be guessing.


    Please feel free to respond with any further questions or newly acquired data.

  9. #409
    Join Date
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    Australia
    Posts
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    I think that since F2P turbine has just got a massive amount of reavers getting farmed and having people call it in... they got sick of the spam from this and 6-7 years to late they decide to do something not because the community wants it because the people filtering reports got sick of the volume that where coming in.

    If they listened they have been listening for to many years and blowing it off... farmers have already made their rank 15 status years ago and probably have another toon that is 11-13... most rank legit 15s would have hit 15 about 2-3 years ago.

    I like to think Turbine did it for the players but I highly doubt they did because I among hundreds of others have reported and written to forums many times.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c0000000da749/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  10. #410
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    Mar 2012
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    Since Turbine thought is was a great idea to bring the servers down on a holiday in both the US and Canada, I'll get my lotro activity in here. Two opinions I've stated many times:

    - Rank farming: Who cares? It's really none of your business how someone else built their character. If you don't think they did it fairly, don't play against them, don't befriend them but in the end, there are many paths to build out your character and everyone's going to get there eventually. Some do it the easy way in any case (only coming to the moors with a giant zerg farming raid and with renown/infamy buffs easily get 10-20k renown/infamy daily) and some do it the hard way (predominantly solo or small group play looking for challenging fights, maybe getting 1-2k daily). If you have a problem with rank farming, why don't you have a problem with raid babies and have that banned?

    - Multiboxing: I agree no one should be able to automate 2-boxing but beyond that, again, it's none of anyone's business what someone does with their paid accounts. Most of the complaints focus on "an unfair advantage". Some of the most vocal complainers often only come into the moors with a pocket healer or 2 or only grouped looking for 5 on 1 fights. If you have a problem with a multiboxer, why don't you have a problem with raid babies and have that banned?

    I've always found it interesting reading the supposed injustice some people find in other people's playstyle while ignoring the same in their own.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    Good, now:

    1) Remove open tapping for points
    2) Remove Audacity
    3) Remove Maps and buff March! to 168% speed
    4) Remove all AOE rezzing, both in and out of combat from both sides
    5) Give creeps spike damage instead of dots
    6) Apply a zone while debuff to reduce crit mag, both sides
    7) Disallow multiboxing in the moors
    8) Buff keep npcs so they actually mean something
    9) Remove all creep "improved" skills and corruptions from the store
    10) Put brands and insignias back the way they used to be
    11) Change the Outpost buffs to something less gamebreaking than increasing mastery or just do away with them
    12) fix the lag (but I believe you're working on that, I do.)
    13) Disallow target forwarding

    And then we'd have a pvmp system that still is as fun as its always been but feels a bit more legit.
    I was just reading the thread, but I fell in-loved with this post and I had to say I totally agree with it. Need a more legit PvP that it is about Skill and not Stats.

  12. #412
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    when your afk and creeps kill you that's like get farmed isn't it

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluepop View Post
    when your afk and creeps kill you that's like get farmed isn't it
    Depends on the GM, but, yes, multiple people have been banned for this.

  14. #414
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    Apr 2007
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    Chicago
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    549

    Thumbs down too little too late

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    A lot of thought went into this...




    ...and this is exactly why we chose not to make it retroactive.
    The problem is you DID used to punish people for rank farming! I've seen accounts temporarily banned or even some characters sent to the "Bree Jail" who were rank farming years ago... This policy was hidden but nonetheless there from the beginning (IMO), but after awhile Turbine simply just gave up trying to police it all the time and just let it happen, simply turned their head as they knew it was happening all over the place... I'm glad they finally came out with a stance against it but it's honestly 6 years too late... Turbine's lack of emphasis towards PvMP has been disappointing and has caused many players to pick up and leave over the years...

    Hopefully this policy will help change the trajectory of where the PvMP in this game has been going
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/06205010000036539/signature.png]Daruk[/charsig]
    Aermaethor-Rank 9 LM, Member of "Spirits of the Forgotten" Daruk- Rank 10 WL, Growlithe r10 Warg, Muggsy r9 Burg
    Fight the good fight... 1 Tim. 6:12

  15. #415
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    Dec 2008
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    1

    Rank farming

    Would Someone be kind enough to tell me how to report people for rank farming?

  16. #416
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Middle-Earth
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by BANEXPLOITSNOW View Post
    BAN THE EXPLOITERS http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2drg9l0&s=5 BAN THE EXPLOITERS BAN THE EXPLOITERS http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2drg9l0&s=5
    I got a better idea: Ban the spammers
    [CENTER][CENTER][URL="http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm"][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/1.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
    [/CENTER]

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by ZaeLocke View Post
    I got a better idea: Ban the spammers
    You should see it on the LOTRO FB page....

  18. #418

    Cool

    First off all I dont consider my sefl as pvp/pvmp player as i dont enjoy it at all. More like pve.

    Today on globall chat I got this link then chated abouth deeds. Because my self would pay for some just to stand on creep side till I kill them. And here I stuck cant do deed faster and have do pvp/pvmp stuff to get deeds done. Fuuu remove deeds from Moors and i wont need break the roles. I want to come to pvp/pvmp on my free will with out thinking how to get kills to get deeds done. And if I do come farm this way its mean not for stupid rank I dont cere but for deeds. Give me button stopping me from renown gane and i will use it all the time.

    So what I am saying removing deeds will decrease so called rank farmers caunt and everyone will be happy.



    ps. And now then skills located on Sauron shop at least for creeps whats point of ranking at all.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Alko View Post
    First off all I dont consider my sefl as pvp/pvmp player as i dont enjoy it at all. More like pve.

    Today on globall chat I got this link then chated abouth deeds. Because my self would pay for some just to stand on creep side till I kill them. And here I stuck cant do deed faster and have do pvp/pvmp stuff to get deeds done. Fuuu remove deeds from Moors and i wont need break the roles. I want to come to pvp/pvmp on my free will with out thinking how to get kills to get deeds done. And if I do come farm this way its mean not for stupid rank I dont cere but for deeds. Give me button stopping me from renown gane and i will use it all the time.

    So what I am saying removing deeds will decrease so called rank farmers caunt and everyone will be happy.



    ps. And now then skills located on Sauron shop at least for creeps whats point of ranking at all.
    The point of deeds is to show something that you earned. Just like rank.

    "If they just gave me the deeds I wouldn't need to earn the deeds"

    What is the point in that? This isn't Cookie Clicker, man.
    [img]http://s22.postimg.org/ok6eiwpb5/sofar.jpg[/img]

  20. #420
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    MD, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alko View Post
    First off all I dont consider my sefl as pvp/pvmp player as i dont enjoy it at all. More like pve.

    Today on globall chat I got this link then chated abouth deeds. Because my self would pay for some just to stand on creep side till I kill them. And here I stuck cant do deed faster and have do pvp/pvmp stuff to get deeds done. Fuuu remove deeds from Moors and i wont need break the roles. I want to come to pvp/pvmp on my free will with out thinking how to get kills to get deeds done. And if I do come farm this way its mean not for stupid rank I dont cere but for deeds. Give me button stopping me from renown gane and i will use it all the time.

    So what I am saying removing deeds will decrease so called rank farmers caunt and everyone will be happy.



    ps. And now then skills located on Sauron shop at least for creeps whats point of ranking at all.
    If I understand your point than I can summarize your post as such:

    "I don't like to PvP, but I want the deeds".

    Huh? The deeds are directly related to your effort in PvP. Deeds for raids are not handed out UNLESS you do the raid. Why would you even care for PvP deeds if you don't PvP? Its like me wanting to get an award for making an epic tuna casserole even though I hate tuna and have never cooked a casserole.
    "...FF is still the best server period, its like the Texas of Lotro"-Bace

  21. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by AmazingX View Post
    The point of deeds is to show something that you earned. Just like rank.

    "If they just gave me the deeds I wouldn't need to earn the deeds"

    What is the point in that? This isn't Cookie Clicker, man.
    This game from moment then it got f2p -free too pay went way off Cookie Clicker. Before you needed to earn skills at least on creep side. Now you just buy.



    Quote Originally Posted by doug01 View Post
    If I understand your point than I can summarize your post as such:

    "I don't like to PvP, but I want the deeds".

    Huh? The deeds are directly related to your effort in PvP. Deeds for raids are not handed out UNLESS you do the raid. Why would you even care for PvP deeds if you don't PvP? Its like me wanting to get an award for making an epic tuna casserole even though I hate tuna and have never cooked a casserole.
    You dont understand out there are players who enjoy just deeds doing and making book (deed log) emty. I dont care abouth titles as rank shows my achievment in game. But this problem is abouth pvp players dont understanding players off pve. I just want way to earn deeds and pvp should have ather ways of shoing your grate achievments. But once again I talk from freep point of wiev. Because as creep you dont get to play in pve enviroment sadly.

    And deeds in pvp are one of reasons why players never go there just to avoid geting deeds in first place. And solution to show your acievment can come from wartab there you can see your pvp stats cant remember how its called. Anyway its not my job giving solution how to improve game I just pointed ather wiev on this problem.

    PS. on my friend list I have 10+ players who trying to get deeds done ingame and never go to pvp just not to ruin they book.

  22. #422
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Middle Earth, Arda
    Posts
    4,266

    Exclamation

    Meanwhile, at some famous corner of the Ettenmoors, some fail cappy is farming 2 creeps right now & ask on GLFF that more creeps come to let her kill them. Will this rule will ever be enforced or some people are exempt?
    Is this Alternate Playable Character Disorder? :

    Check my Kinship at Gladden server: The Fate of Middle Earth

 

 
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