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  1. #1

    Some Low-Level Captain Thoughts

    I started playing LotRO long ago, but never was able to spend much time with it. Between that and alt-itis, my highest level toon is 54 (I think).

    Anyways, I recently started playing again and chose to work on my level 30 captain, who is now almost 43. And while I like the class, I am a little disappointed about the distribution of useful skills as you level. Now, part of the problem is on me, because I solo A LOT, and I understand that the captain is most useful in group situations.

    But as I leveled from 30 up, it seemed I didn't get any really useful skills, that everything I mostly use I got early on. So every two levels I check for a new skill and it's something, well, dull.

    32: Cry of Vengeance - useless for soloing
    34: Herald of Victory - don't need, using War
    36: In Harm's Way - useless for soloing
    38: Tactic: Focus - never use
    40: To Arms: Shield-Brother - my herald typically does not have aggro, so pretty meh for soloing again
    42: Grave Wound: don't need threat as a soloer, I always have it lol

    So over 12 levels I got pretty much nothing useful. And I'm looking forward to these:

    44: Kick - YAY! Something useful!
    46: Withdraw - YAY! Run away? Wait, what? Sigh.

    When I hit 39, I bought the books to earn three legendary traits. Got all the pages by lotsa questing and grinding. And what do I have?

    Oathbreaker's Shame - nice skill, but 10s on a 5 min CD? Seems awfully tame for a "legendary"
    Shield of the Dunedain - not worth protecting my herald (that sounds awful I know lol)
    Fellowship Brother - I guess okay, and it's what I have slotted.

    Meanwhile I look at some other classes' legendary traits learned from their books, and they seem significant. Ents Go to War, Exposed Throat or Flashing Blades, etc etc.

    Again, I like the class, I like that it can take some damage, deal some damage, and heal. I understand it is kind of a Jack-of-All-Trades class.

    But for someone soloing, and certainly you CAN solo on a captain, a LOT of the skills are pretty useless and underwhelming - seems like all the good stuff we get in the first ten levels, with a severe drop-off after that. I'm still playing the same basic rotation at 40 as I was at 10

    I am looking forward to getting to a higher level and doing some more grouping with my kin, but I wanted to post my thoughts and hear what other people might have to say: either commiserating or telling me how awesome things get later is most recommended

  2. #2
    My captain is level 57 and I have waaay too many skills slotted in my quick slots and all that mess. Well you won't be grouping on those levels mainly but it's to prepare you for Moria instances or Angmar long time ago. Moria u group a bit also and the instances and raids are great even if u are a soloist u can't resist to join one. Also they don't want to give too many skills either that they go over the max u can hold. Remember you still got 39 levels until 85 so there will be many skills plus a couple of upgraded ones to make them that much more unique.
    Besides the Captain DPS is pretty nice compared to other classes I've played and skills are pretty moderate Cd's. Besides enjoy the game up until that point cuz web ur done leveling u gotta go back and deed and all that good stuff. Hehe good luck on ur cappy tho and moria!
    Main: Builas (Hunter) lvl 85 || Thelluin (Minstrel) lvl 85 ~ Recruiting Officer of The Knights of Dol Amroth (Brandywine)
    ~Even in the darkness of Moria and Isengard, I feel the golden woods of Lòrien giving me hope~

  3. #3
    Level 35-45 is a real pain, in all senses, on cappy. If you don't have lootbox gear, but are Annuminas kindred (and if not, why not? it's so easy these days) get the Arnorian Commander's Halberd at lv40. Really good weapon for the level.

    At 45, do the Moria intro to get your first LI *immediately*.

    You will notice a step change in your effectiveness, and should finally be able to kill stuff faster than it kills you... and once you get into Moria, you start being awesome.
    105s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Brai (RK), Hrolfdan (MN), Aeldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rummbold (BG). Tinies - Rumbelina (MN), Aenghus (CP)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), ex-Snowbourn now Laurelin - A Noob for All Seasons

  4. #4
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    As far as legendary traits go, IDoME is the only one that's a must have for soloing.... aside from your capstones (which you're still a good ways off from) the rest are fairly meh.

    But yeah, we've desperately needed a rework of when we get skills..... it made sense..... back when the level cap was 50 and 60, but hasn't really since then....
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  5. #5
    Fellowship-brother on your herald will make a lot of your otherwise useless group skills have a partial effect on yourself.
    "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

  6. #6
    Well my leveling has slowed down a bit, now at 46.

    I went ahead and slotted the Fellowship Brother legendary skill, and spent a bit of time working on the level 45 quest - finally finishing that a little bit ago so now I also have In Defence of Middle Earth slotted.

    I haven't had many problems questing. The kill speed isn't great but I can take on 3 mobs of my level and survive (usually at about 1/3 a health bar by then). I can kill Signature mobs no problem but can't really kill Elites. They just hit too hard and without a decent self-heal on a reasonable cooldown, I just don't live.

    I've heard that cappies can solo a bit of stuff at later levels, but I was wondering how that works? Is it mostly getting Rallying Cry down to 15s with LI legacies combined with more ways to generate defeat events? Just curious.

    Going to work on getting my first LI now, we'll see how that goes

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroloki View Post
    Well my leveling has slowed down a bit, now at 46.

    I went ahead and slotted the Fellowship Brother legendary skill, and spent a bit of time working on the level 45 quest - finally finishing that a little bit ago so now I also have In Defence of Middle Earth slotted.

    I haven't had many problems questing. The kill speed isn't great but I can take on 3 mobs of my level and survive (usually at about 1/3 a health bar by then). I can kill Signature mobs no problem but can't really kill Elites. They just hit too hard and without a decent self-heal on a reasonable cooldown, I just don't live.

    I've heard that cappies can solo a bit of stuff at later levels, but I was wondering how that works? Is it mostly getting Rallying Cry down to 15s with LI legacies combined with more ways to generate defeat events? Just curious.

    Going to work on getting my first LI now, we'll see how that goes
    Getting reduced cooldown on Rallying Cry does make a significant difference, but when facing a single powerful opponent (like an Elite) there is another little trick that makes a bigger difference: use Revealing Mark on the opponent. Using that plus some Rallying Cries and possibly some Power/Morale potions should let you beat most Elites while having nearly full morale at the end of the fight.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    As far as legendary traits go, IDoME is the only one that's a must have for soloing.... aside from your capstones (which you're still a good ways off from) the rest are fairly meh.

    But yeah, we've desperately needed a rework of when we get skills..... it made sense..... back when the level cap was 50 and 60, but hasn't really since then....
    I recommend IDOME, Master of War and Oathbreakers Shame for solo.

    IDOME - Benefits you from all of the stats. Remember that Might increases DPS/Mits and Vitality both Max Health and Mits.
    Master of War - Improves your heralds and increases your damage output.
    Oathbreakers Shame - Every 5 minutes you can really chop the &&&& out of an enemy. Really good feeling, and speeds things up!

  9. #9
    double post, sorry

  10. #10
    I play captain as an alt, currently at level 51, and it is by far the weakest class at lower levels. DPS is comparatively less than half of my hunter's; it takes my hunter less time/pain/power to kill a same level signature mob than my captain to kill a same level normal mob. I can also kill faster with other supportive classes (minstrel, RK), which can heal better. And a warden can kill faster and tank better. I hear that they get better with mounted combat, but that is a long ways for me.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by chufa View Post
    I play captain as an alt, currently at level 51, and it is by far the weakest class at lower levels. DPS is comparatively less than half of my hunter's; it takes my hunter less time/pain/power to kill a same level signature mob than my captain to kill a same level normal mob. I can also kill faster with other supportive classes (minstrel, RK), which can heal better. And a warden can kill faster and tank better. I hear that they get better with mounted combat, but that is a long ways for me.
    Hunters are a dime a dozen. You only need 1 tank for groups. Everyone wants a captain and they are always in demand. Its worth chugging along.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehlla View Post
    Hunters are a dime a dozen. You only need 1 tank for groups. Everyone wants a captain and they are always in demand. Its worth chugging along.
    Yup, and I am greedy, I want 2 in a raid. Captains are game changers if they know their class, heck - even a bad Cappy is a game changer for the good.
    Used to show a pic... Seems to be broken links now. Good Ole Turbine.

  13. #13
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    Have a low flying Captain and with Herald (am lv12) I am really having fun solo'ing...I realise he doesnt hit like my Hunter or have the AoE speed killing of my champs but he has a pal to look after, and with his help he quickly chews through on level mobs!

  14. #14
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by chufa View Post
    I play captain as an alt, currently at level 51, and it is by far the weakest class at lower levels. DPS is comparatively less than half of my hunter's; it takes my hunter less time/pain/power to kill a same level signature mob than my captain to kill a same level normal mob. I can also kill faster with other supportive classes (minstrel, RK), which can heal better. And a warden can kill faster and tank better. I hear that they get better with mounted combat, but that is a long ways for me.
    Definitely agree. I have leveled every class except for Lore-master and the Captain is just trash until end-game. I understand they're excellent in groups but due to low availability of grouping in the mid ranges and questing needed for virtues, being excellent in groups isn't that useful early on. The power difference is incredible when considering the amount of classes that can kill faster and with no fear of death/elites.


    Minstrel: Thump, thump, thump, ssshhhhhiiiiiiiiiii, AHHHHHHHH = Death to all mobs with 100% Morale while simultaneously giggling at your god-like bard abilities.
    Champion: Slash, Slash, SHING SHING = Death to all mobs with 100% Morale (bubble + selfheal) while scouting the distances to find even more mobs to pull.
    Rune-keeper: Rock, Pflpt, pflpt, Pwschuuuu, PKEEEWWWW = Death to all mobs with 100% Morale while maniacally laughing at your fully attuned Zeus bolts.

    And the list continues...

    Captain: Banner, AHHHHH, Shing, Shing, Shing, umm..... Shing, Shing = Death and low on power while finishing your television show and nachos.



    This needs some desperate attention when the class revamps roll out; hopefully we will no longer suffer through 50 levels of being the red-headed stepchild. At least mounted combat swings in the Captains favor. We can only hope more people stick it out long enough to get there.
    [COLOR=#b22222]Lexlund[/COLOR], [COLOR=#add8e6]Lexore[/COLOR], [COLOR=#d3d3d3]Lexorne[/COLOR] - [SIZE=1][I]Landroval[/I][/SIZE]

  15. #15
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    Yeah, one of the unfortunate parts of leveling up a Captain is that we really need our legendary capstone traits in order to be good for much of anything.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZAlex86 View Post

    Minstrel: Thump, thump, thump, ssshhhhhiiiiiiiiiii, AHHHHHHHH = Death to all mobs with 100% Morale while simultaneously giggling at your god-like bard abilities.
    Champion: Slash, Slash, SHING SHING = Death to all mobs with 100% Morale (bubble + selfheal) while scouting the distances to find even more mobs to pull.
    Rune-keeper: Rock, Pflpt, pflpt, Pwschuuuu, PKEEEWWWW = Death to all mobs with 100% Morale while maniacally laughing at your fully attuned Zeus bolts.

    And the list continues...

    Captain: Banner, AHHHHH, Shing, Shing, Shing, umm..... Shing, Shing = Death and low on power while finishing your television show and nachos.
    POP ART needed to illustrate this... great onomatopoeic sound effects!

    Am just starting a lowly Captain hope to drag it to end game, hope not too frustrating...

  17. #17
    Well, as the OP of this thread I figure I should jump back in with more thoughts as I've leveled.

    I am now 72. I cruised pretty easily through Moria with no real problems, and never felt particularly over my head. Getting the archer has helped a bit, as well as LIs. So far it seems Rallying Cry CD is THE legacy you must have if you had to pick one. I was able to get it on an early LI and made a scroll when I deconned the LI, but didn't realize the scrolls had max limits and so they were useless to me lol.

    Anyways, I am able to kill stuff, but I don't think I'm very fast. I have leveled other toons, but only to level 30-40 for most, and so long ago, that I don't have a real reference to how fast or slow I am compared to other classes. On occasion when I see other classes in combat, they seem to go through mobs MUCH quicker than me.

    So now I'm in Dunland, and my main problem is this: my gear is way way out of date. When I use the LotRO stat-check web site, I was usually a good bit ahead of my peers on some key stats up until Moria. After Moria, I have fallen way behind. Mainly because most of the quests I've done don't reward gear, they give IXP, rep, and rep tokens. But I end up moving from zone to zone because I am outleveling things, so I never get really high rep or see much I can buy.

    I realize this is not a class issue, but I am curious: where do you get your gear after Moria? Crafting? Buying with rep tokens? Skirmish tokens?

    But as behind as I seem to be, I still get through the regular content okay. Only three more levels til Rohan, and I heard captains are strong in mounted combat, so maybe it's not a big deal and I can stop worrying about gear until 85.

    Oh, for traits, I am mostly red, with red capstone (Master of War). For blues I have Now for Wrath and Strength from Within, but solo so far I am not too impressed with the power return of the former. I go through power quick and it helps, but not so much that I wonder if I should just accept the power issues for now. For legendaries I am using Master of War, IDoME, and Fellowship-Brother to get a little healing from Inspire.

    Definitely enjoy my cappy, and I can see with all the buffs we have and the brother skills and so on, why captains would be so wanted end-game!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroloki View Post
    Well, as the OP of this thread I figure I should jump back in with more thoughts as I've leveled.

    I am now 72. I cruised pretty easily through Moria with no real problems, and never felt particularly over my head. Getting the archer has helped a bit, as well as LIs. So far it seems Rallying Cry CD is THE legacy you must have if you had to pick one. I was able to get it on an early LI and made a scroll when I deconned the LI, but didn't realize the scrolls had max limits and so they were useless to me lol.

    Anyways, I am able to kill stuff, but I don't think I'm very fast. I have leveled other toons, but only to level 30-40 for most, and so long ago, that I don't have a real reference to how fast or slow I am compared to other classes. On occasion when I see other classes in combat, they seem to go through mobs MUCH quicker than me.

    So now I'm in Dunland, and my main problem is this: my gear is way way out of date. When I use the LotRO stat-check web site, I was usually a good bit ahead of my peers on some key stats up until Moria. After Moria, I have fallen way behind. Mainly because most of the quests I've done don't reward gear, they give IXP, rep, and rep tokens. But I end up moving from zone to zone because I am outleveling things, so I never get really high rep or see much I can buy.

    I realize this is not a class issue, but I am curious: where do you get your gear after Moria? Crafting? Buying with rep tokens? Skirmish tokens?

    But as behind as I seem to be, I still get through the regular content okay. Only three more levels til Rohan, and I heard captains are strong in mounted combat, so maybe it's not a big deal and I can stop worrying about gear until 85.

    Oh, for traits, I am mostly red, with red capstone (Master of War). For blues I have Now for Wrath and Strength from Within, but solo so far I am not too impressed with the power return of the former. I go through power quick and it helps, but not so much that I wonder if I should just accept the power issues for now. For legendaries I am using Master of War, IDoME, and Fellowship-Brother to get a little healing from Inspire.

    Definitely enjoy my cappy, and I can see with all the buffs we have and the brother skills and so on, why captains would be so wanted end-game!
    When you get to lvl 60-70 I think you'll find you are comparing yourself to 'dead'/inactive characters with endgear stuff - toons that were used to do raids at lvl 60 or 65 and therefore have endgame gear, firstagers etc. That'd explain why you're falling behind.

    For leveling your main tool will always be your LI, and you'll find DPS is increasing rather fast as you progress to 75, a lvl 65 2h LI is like 65-85DPS where a lvl 75 is 110-130DPS, and that'll make a good bit of difference. As for power that is closely related to DPS as well, the faster stuff dies the less power you need to use.

    If you are using Blade-brother on your herald Fellowship-Brother has no effect at all, the Capstone gives you a stronger effect instead. Consider using Oathbreakers for that bit extra damage once in a while.
    I'd scrap Strength from Within with Relentless Optimism any day, +50% heal critical multiplier is just sweet - afaik it also applies to power heals, so it will help you in that aspect as well.

    As for mounted combat, Captains are indeed a very strong class, my record is ~130,000 damage total with 1 skill on 6 targets

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    If you are using Blade-brother on your herald Fellowship-Brother has no effect at all, the Capstone gives you a stronger effect instead. Consider using Oathbreakers for that bit extra damage once in a while.
    I'd scrap Strength from Within with Relentless Optimism any day, +50% heal critical multiplier is just sweet - afaik it also applies to power heals, so it will help you in that aspect as well.
    I'm just shy of having the Blade-Brother skill - I think it's level 74. Which brings up a point. Even though cappies are more of a group class than any other, almost everyone spends the bulk of their time solo while leveling I would guess. So why don't cappies learn Blade-Brother earlier and save Shield-Brother and Song-Brother for later? The only time you use a herald is solo, pretty much, and Shield-Brother does nothing to help you out since how often does your herald have aggro and need healing? Swap Blade-Brother and Shield-Brother in the skills list as far as when you get them.

    Another tough thing for leveling cappies is that while we can heal okay, self-healing, which is what you need when solo, hardly exists. You have Rallying Cry on a 45s CD AND which requires a defeat response, and that's it. It's only when you get LIs with the RC cooldown that it comes into it's own for solo play (even then, I find on-level elites can be problematic because I find it hard to get crits on them to open up defeat responses to invoke Rallying Cry). Now you can trait for Fellowship-Brother, a legendary skill, to get a tiny bit of healing, and trait Strength from Within for a decent heal from Muster Courage, but it still always felt weird that I could heal anyone else better than I can heal myself.

    Oops, forgot about Revealing Mark. That does help a bit. But I still think we could use a little more while leveling, what with our DPS being so low.

    A final thought is that leveling cappies would be helped out by some form of CC - a root, mez, or something. Nothing huge, single-target only, and even on a long cooldown would be okay. But we have pretty much nothing from what I can tell - traited Routing Cry (3s AoE stun) is about all that comes to mind. Improved Cutting Attack, at like 72, gives us a 25% slow, but since we need to be in melee to do damage, that really doesn't help any.

    So I've digressed a little, but in summary the above is meant to highlight observations I've made while leveling my cappy and possible suggestions to address perceived shortcomings.

    Again, I love my cappy, and I do okay. I would be curious, though, how frustrating leveling a cappy might be to someone who has leveled almost any other class, just by comparison.

    And now, back into the fray!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroloki View Post
    I'm just shy of having the Blade-Brother skill - I think it's level 74. Which brings up a point. Even though cappies are more of a group class than any other, almost everyone spends the bulk of their time solo while leveling I would guess. So why don't cappies learn Blade-Brother earlier and save Shield-Brother and Song-Brother for later? The only time you use a herald is solo, pretty much, and Shield-Brother does nothing to help you out since how often does your herald have aggro and need healing? Swap Blade-Brother and Shield-Brother in the skills list as far as when you get them.
    This is something that has been said several times in the Revamp thread, so hopefully devs will change it some day. Captains have many skills/bonuses lategame that would be really nice to have earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by neuroloki View Post
    Another tough thing for leveling cappies is that while we can heal okay, self-healing, which is what you need when solo, hardly exists. You have Rallying Cry on a 45s CD AND which requires a defeat response, and that's it. It's only when you get LIs with the RC cooldown that it comes into it's own for solo play (even then, I find on-level elites can be problematic because I find it hard to get crits on them to open up defeat responses to invoke Rallying Cry). Now you can trait for Fellowship-Brother, a legendary skill, to get a tiny bit of healing, and trait Strength from Within for a decent heal from Muster Courage, but it still always felt weird that I could heal anyone else better than I can heal myself.

    Oops, forgot about Revealing Mark. That does help a bit. But I still think we could use a little more while leveling, what with our DPS being so low.

    A final thought is that leveling cappies would be helped out by some form of CC - a root, mez, or something. Nothing huge, single-target only, and even on a long cooldown would be okay. But we have pretty much nothing from what I can tell - traited Routing Cry (3s AoE stun) is about all that comes to mind. Improved Cutting Attack, at like 72, gives us a 25% slow, but since we need to be in melee to do damage, that really doesn't help any.

    So I've digressed a little, but in summary the above is meant to highlight observations I've made while leveling my cappy and possible suggestions to address perceived shortcomings.

    Again, I love my cappy, and I do okay. I would be curious, though, how frustrating leveling a cappy might be to someone who has leveled almost any other class, just by comparison.

    And now, back into the fray!
    Well, I've always thought there's been a lack of Captains despite how awesome they are to play, and I think the main reason is because Captains are among the worst to level if not the worst.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by neuroloki View Post
    ...

    Another tough thing for leveling cappies is that while we can heal okay, self-healing, which is what you need when solo, hardly exists. You have Rallying Cry on a 45s CD AND which requires a defeat response, and that's it. It's only when you get LIs with the RC cooldown that it comes into it's own for solo play (even then, I find on-level elites can be problematic because I find it hard to get crits on them to open up defeat responses to invoke Rallying Cry). Now you can trait for Fellowship-Brother, a legendary skill, to get a tiny bit of healing, and trait Strength from Within for a decent heal from Muster Courage, but it still always felt weird that I could heal anyone else better than I can heal myself.

    ...
    I had absolutely no issues staying alive with RC at or near 15 sec cd. I crit enough that it is always in use or if need I have my Time of Need cd low enough to make up for it in solo build. Leveling my biggest was not being able to take on more than 2 mobs due to power. I easily could have handled 3 - 4 yellow to red if the power had been available. We are either power hogs or just do not get enough to start with (maybe both). With my Cappy at 85, I am stacking way more fate than I care to (even if the crits are nice) to get more ICPR.
    Used to show a pic... Seems to be broken links now. Good Ole Turbine.

  22. #22

    great read

    i recently rolled a Captain and she is level 20 right now, just got her to 20 tonight and am enjoying it so far, it is a bit of a challenge and i am going back and from the haleberd weapon to a sword and shield, i have a good idea now of how to trait her when i get to 50 from reading all these posts
    If you are going to be bad, be bad with purpose, otherwise your just not worth Forgiving


    Damon Salvatore

  23. #23
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    lv35-45 a real pain

    Well Progress has been real nice, I find with my maid at arms on level content so far a breeze! Now lv31 and not struggling but have decided to get some of those annoying deeds done for traits...

    Determination 2
    Discipline 4
    Fortitude 3
    Loyalty 2
    Valour 3

    At the moment, will be swapping Loyalty for Zeal 3 as soon as I get back in game!

    Look ok?

  24. #24
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    suggestion from my kin:

    'While leveling I think the most valuable traits would be zeal, valor, compassion, innocence and discipline.'

    or

    'While leveling it is not as effective as going for strait morale.'

    ideas?
    WINDFOLA: Tsuhelm Hunter lv62 LANDROVAL: Tsudryt Captain lv62 LAURELIN: Opopa Burgler lv22 WITHYWINDLE: Tsukuld Rune-keeper lv85

    WP blog: Tsuhelm

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsunamimc View Post
    suggestion from my kin:

    'While leveling I think the most valuable traits would be zeal, valor, compassion, innocence and discipline.'

    or

    'While leveling it is not as effective as going for strait morale.'

    ideas?
    Zeal is without doubt the best Virtue trait, there's no reason to ever not trait that one.
    The others really depend on what you need - if you're low on defences innocence and compassion are nice, other times it's nice to have Discipline for the extra Might.

 

 
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