Legendary Solo Build: Memories of the first age

[Almagnus1]

Well, there's also Oathbreaker's Shame, which does have its uses, and the marking skills, along with morale and power healing which is useful when it comes. He's also an effective tank in smaller groups. To me, all of that is worth sacrificing DPS over. I'm not the only captain who feels that way. I'm sorry that you don't respect that opinion, because I do respect yours.

Heh, you missed the point...... Time to break it down.

Well, there's also Oathbreaker's Shame, which does have its uses, and the marking skills, along with morale and power healing which is useful when it comes.

OS is not required for content. Since RoI, the only time it's actively slotted was in ToO and the 'Moors. So it's not a necessary part of the class.

And if our healing ability is what we're desired for, why did Turbine give us a DPS and Tanking trait line?

He's also an effective tank in smaller groups.

Only if the captain gears with high vit gear, and goes 5 deep in the yellow line. Doing so completely shoot our healing and DPS ability, which contradicts what you said above. We cannot effectively offtank unless we have yellow traits of MoW (SL's threat makes that work). And like we saw in ToO - if MoW cannot produce enough DPS, it's not going to be very welcome, which paved the way for the 4R/3B build which was largely dominant in that raiding scene.

So tanking ability is largely situational, and varies greatly depending on what the captains traits and builds.

To me, all of that is worth sacrificing DPS over.

Analyzing the above, you are basically saying you want to sacrifice Healing for DPS - which flows with how the LtC/HoH traitlines generally function - RC being the only real outlier there.

We can't have it all, unfortunately too many do not know exactly what we can do and instead overestimate what we're really capable of (and probably more think we're completely useless outside of our buffs - thus the comments I have heard of "buff and go sit in the corner").

[Armitas]

Basch - As the OP of the thread let me set the record straight it is about PvP and PVE. The PvE aspect has been discussed enough in other threads that we are mostly on the same page without the need to derail for several pages on it again.

The statement passed around the forums so many times of "we are a support class and not a dps class" has come and gone with the ROR guardian. This mentality no longer has any foundation to stand on. Not when the devs gave guardians dps just below hunters and RKS, not to mention RKs who are both top tier healers and top tier dpsers.

Also I have never seen someone call out to a dev before asking to remain under-devloped as a solo player. I don't have words for what you just did there, I'm just plain appalled that you would do that.

Gungus - Darn, I didn't think about that. I was hoping it would be a panacea, but it's been so long since I leveled captain, I forgot we got those legendaries so late in the game. And thanks for the kind words.

Maley - I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one going nuts over the same things over and over again. Like you my patience has run so thin.

Tarkit - I'm glad you see past the bits you don't like. The details are not so important as getting in that foundation to move the equation. They were all smaller ideas I had to get the big one moving. I'm willing to budge on anything so long as we can get that foundation going.

Sorry for the slow responses, out of town this weekend. On a laptop I dug out of the trashcan and fixed and it's powered by a powersupply to small for it so I had to splice a usb cord and a fan to the powersupply to keep it cool. It's pretty sad...

[apb8808]

What PvE content can captains not solo currently?

PvP solo focused changes are a waste, solo play is dying/dead in the moors.

The ONLY way to fix the "equation" is with this legendary change? There's other ways to do it, which is why the devs most certainly will not follow this.

I am with you on IDOME becoming a regular skill, it is waste of a legendary. How about giving captains a legendary attack/buff? Flashing Blades/ Ents you know, those old boys. For the solo'ers yo.

Buff:

Valorous Resolve

" A Captain steels himself to be the lone beacon of light against the darkness" blah blah

+30% Melee Damage ----- 30% base/ # of fellowship members, full fellow - only 5% self buff
-30% Attack Duration ----- same as above
+6% Crit chance ----- 6% base/ # of fellowship members, full fellow - only 1% self buff

Duration: 30 sec ----- 30 seconds/ # of fellowship members - only 5 second self-buff
CD: 3 min

Attack:

Numenorean Edge

" A Captain channels the ancient martial style of Numenor to deal a deadly blow" yippie ky-yay

Two strike single target attack, high crit multiplier similar to Dev blow. 2 to 4k PvE, 1 to 1500 PvP per strike.

If buffed with Relentless Attack: Captains next dev blow will be an auto-crit.
If buffed with Parry: Captains next defensive strike reduces incoming damage 25% for 10 seconds.
If buffed with focus: Captains returns 2% power for each succesful attack for 30 seconds.

3 min CD.

[Armitas]

What PvE content can captains not solo currently?

PvP solo focused changes are a waste, solo play is dying/dead in the moors.

The ONLY way to fix the "equation" is with this legendary change? There's other ways to do it, which is why the devs most certainly will not follow this.

I am with you on IDOME becoming a regular skill, it is waste of a legendary. How about giving captains a legendary attack/buff? Flashing Blades/ Ents you know, those old boys. For the solo'ers yo.

Not talking about pve trash mobs, were talking about entering as a dps slot (this has been discussed in rote over several forum post, not going to get into it here)

Solo play is not dead and dying. Unless you can tell me that everyone in the moors will be grouped and raided as soon as they enter then you are incorrect. Your right that the direction has changed, but the capacity to fulfil that direction remains the same.

Other ways?...if your showing your work by the additions you made below that so blatantly break that equation and the balance then I don't think you understand how that equation works. This IS the equation they are using, if you have any doubts about that take a look at the guardian whos equation looks like this (Guard power = tank ability + personal contribution). Now what did they JUST DO in ROR? They subtracted from his tank ability and added to his personal ability. They gave the guard the ability to alter his own equation through a stance, which I am cool with, but because I read these forums regularly I know there is a good enough crowd out there that is against stances.

Don't get me wrong those ideas sound exciting, I love it, and it would immediately let us fill a dps slot.. but they do not fit the equation. Unless you make that fit the equation it will never happen. They will not give us amazing buffs and amazing dps simultaneously, they will follow the same formula as the guard. They will never allow you to be two things at once. Reference guard (dps/tank) RK(heal/dps) Mini (WSdps/heal).

Again, your suggestion is absolutely fantastic, I would love it, but you have to make it fit the equation they are using.

[hussar]

I like the banner idea. Is a really good one.

Regarding the heralds just drop them, I rather not use them at all. Just make the brother skills something like toggle stances with the same effects that you proposed.

If it is a solo legendary I would add something like this.
War Cry, Rallying cry and Make haste are no longer group wide and only affects the captain.
War Cry would no longer need a defeat response. Adding to our dps.
Make Haste will set speed to 125%. No longer we will get kited to death. And as is solo, it would not be an OP group wide speed buff.
RC, I don't see a good way to "improve it" for solo. There could be some ideas:
A longer cooldown and no defeat response. But a longer cd could be not benefitial for crit builds. And since we are removing WC from the defeat response and captains go for LtC and therefore no SL, or defeat responses will only be Rallying and routing cry. We will get less for our crits if we go with this.
No power cost or lower it a lot. Liberating a trait for those that use NfW or still use that trait to make it as a power regen source.
Longer Hots/Pots.
It removes 1 dot on use. If its too OP it can be limited to 1 use every 20secs.

Muster Courage can also be added to the same situation above with a new benefit of removing wounds/poison/disease too (up to 1 of those, and still 3 fears) But it seems kinda OP to me. Or adding a +10% resist buff.

I would agree with that kind of slow on battle shout but in general I don't like the idea of slow on BS. Since it can't be too big or it will be OP.
I rather had a ranged slow with a no-spammable -40% on TS for like 10 secs. Reducing the TS range if needed.

About the change on Last stand, rather than a PoT regen for that amount of time (Seems kinda OP to be honest) a -50% skill power for 30 secs could be better.

[Almagnus1]

Again, your suggestion is absolutely fantastic, I would love it, but you have to make it fit the equation they are using.

Therein lies one of the biggest problems with that equation: Gameplay around buffing isn't all that much fun. It HAS to be integrated with other stuff, otherwise most buffers are going to feel useless, especially when others start throwing around HPS and DPS numbers (thank you Combat Analysis for that one -_- ).

[Armitas]

I would agree with that kind of slow on battle shout but in general I don't like the idea of slow on BS. Since it can't be too big or it will be OP.
I rather had a ranged slow with a no-spammable -40% on TS for like 10 secs. Reducing the TS range if needed.

About the change on Last stand, rather than a PoT regen for that amount of time (Seems kinda OP to be honest) a -50% skill power for 30 secs could be better.

I had thought about adding battle shout in some way, but I wanted to keep it small for now.

I'm 50/50 with you guys on removing heralds since they have been the way they are for so long now. If they can do it right though, then eventually I think the wait might pay off. I'd like to finally see them be something more than I'd like to see them fail off the table. I still believe that heralds are a smaller version of my legendary, archer in particular. You summon the archer for dps and lose the group wide banner. The mechanic is there to make the archer a solo balance point, they have just never used it effectively.

It could go there but it doesn't leave you much wiggle room for mistakes, especially if headshot knocks you down and resets the gap. With a ranged slow you can keep-up you got a chance to bpe your way in if Make haste is down. TS has to long of a cool down to keep up, while hindering shot can be maintained. Battle shout does tactical dmg so I'm hoping the slow cannot be bpe during moving target.

The pot regen is there for flies, terror banner, CoDS. A skill power reduction would not help fix our current problems. -50% skill power cost is useless when you have no power. I never mentioned what the pot value would be so I can't imagine how you could even call it OP without knowing anything about it's value. It's value would be dev balanced to compete with the above debuffs. Considering that this 2m pot is replacing 15-25 seconds of complete invulnerability it's not very op.

Therein lies one of the biggest problems with that equation: Gameplay around buffing isn't all that much fun. It HAS to be integrated with other stuff, otherwise most buffers are going to feel useless, especially when others start throwing around HPS and DPS numbers (thank you Combat Analysis for that one -_- ).

Captain power = (personal contribution + Group buffs)

I do think there is room now to add some to personal contribution without any subtraction. Captain power is not so high as to leave no room for any personal improvement. The devs agree with you because they directly added a little bit to us without making any subtractions. I have not been able to see the dps of that increase yet, so there is still room for that. As long as total captain power is not greater than other class power contribution then we got room.

[hussar]

It could go there but it doesn't leave you much wiggle room for mistakes, especially if headshot knocks you down and resets the gap. With a ranged slow you can keep-up you got a chance to bpe your way in if Make haste is down. TS has to long of a cool down to keep up, while hindering shot can be maintained. Battle shout does tactical dmg so I'm hoping the slow cannot be bpe during moving target.


The pot regen is there for flies, terror banner, CoDS. A skill power reduction would not help fix our current problems. -50% skill power cost is useless when you have no power. I never mentioned what the pot value would be so I can't imagine how you could even call it OP without knowing anything about it's value. It's value would be dev balanced to compete with the above debuffs. Considering that this 2m pot is replacing 15-25 seconds of complete invulnerability it's not very op.

A -40% in TS should be there just so you can close the gap in that time and apply CA again, is not perfect but would be better that we have now. It wasn't meant to be our primary slow.

The problem is our lack of range skills so we only have 2 choices to put a slow in it, and as you said TS can't be spammed, and BS is already a core skill in a short cd, a slow (that can make the difference) in that skill, will be hard to balance.

Maybe if we add the slow into our marks? If its in noble mark, that way you could trade the telling mark and revealing effects for a perma slow. But that also seems kinda OP since it would be permanent (no cd to go off, and apply once and forget).

Well that being said, I have no idea how to get us a decent slow, spammable and at -30-35% in a ranged skill, unless is a new one.

It's a pot of 2m in a 5min cd (or 4 as you proposed), that's pretty much for what I called it OP, and about values I can guess that it has to be at least between blade brother inspire pot and song brother pot, if not, it would not regen anything (at least immediately) and would be kinda useless then anyways. And the skill is in a 5min cd so it would be in a normal rotation and almost always up.

[Armitas]

It's a pot of 2m in a 5min cd (or 4 as you proposed), that's pretty much for what I called it OP, and about values I can guess that it has to be at least between blade brother inspire pot and song brother pot, if not, it would not regen anything (at least immediately) and would be kinda useless then anyways. And the skill is in a 5min cd so it would be in a normal rotation and almost always up.

Slow -
I'd go with it on any of the marks so long as it's also on revealing mark. TS is also very nice but it's just not on rotation, and we already have so much other non dps stuff on rotation. Reavers have -35% permanently, at least just as permanent as our 25%, and they also have bladetoss on back up. Getting a competitive slow, even ranged, especially with a 50% chance is just not OP in comparison. They have -35% and a ranged -40%, and a slow break with immunity. ^{*(with our slow break on a 5piece healing set, we do not have a slow break)}

POT -
Defiler flies can suck you down at a rate of 65-85 every second....every second your losing that much on top of your own attack costs. You don't have the dps to take a fly out effectively because they will come right back by the time you kill it. If CoDS or terror banner is down you will be out of power in about 7 to 8 seconds. I have had flies bug out on me, gotten out of combat ate regen food and still not got up past 100power. Believe me, you will need every bit of those 2 min if you want to have any shot at winning. If you think this pot is OP I have to hear what you call defiler flies. I have seen champs at 1max power, permanently from CoDS and terror banner alone.

[DelgonTheWise]

What about the third, fourth, fifth?

One per fellow has been standard for a very long time. The third captain in a raid (or fifth if we're talking about a full raid) does not bring enough to the raid to justify their spot.

I currently only play my captain (and a bit slowly, not quite 85 yet as I've had other things to do), so what is good for captains is good for me.

That said, there are 9 classes. If Captains get 2 out of the 12 spots in a raid (which is generally the case), we are already over-represented. If we are in any way seriously competitive for additional spots beyond 2, it seems to me very unfair to the other classes. IMHO the game/instance design has succeeded if there is little or no benefit to stacking, but rather class diversity is optimal...

As to the original topic, not sure. My Captain solos very well EXCEPT in the moors, where I have the issues you describe. In PvE soloing, which is generally easy, I find the toughness and self-healing outweights the mediocre DPS (except mounted, where we have really good DPS). In PvP, well, yes. As you say, we can be kited etc...

[Armitas]

10/12 for battle in tuck, need tank and 1 dps.

Although this doesn't go far enough to allow it, it would be nice to reply to the above and say "inv" no questions asked. Not enough to be a true dps class just enough to be good enough. Once the ground work is laid down, in the form of this equation pivot point, we would for the first time be able to proceed safely down that road we call dps.

It was my hope to increase the solo-ability of leveling captains, but I forgot how late we get legendaries, so that only half helps a lvling captain. Our lvl-capped solo-ability isn't so bad, we can solo t2 stone height where others cannot. We probably couldn't just wing it like a few can but it's open to us. The first step shown here would provide for pvp to a level that I think would make us finished, and provide much less battle prep management while solo along with a bit of a dps increase. After that is done the door to dps is left wide open to us, with nothing in the way but perception.

In total.

Pvp - makes us competitive solo

PvE - Moderate dps increase with much less monotonous and time consuming non-dps battle prep

Main purpose - It allows the devs to provide for dps and solo capacity without effecting our overall value _{(group buff value)}. Or in other words we are no longer value balanced around group play while solo. The devs can now adjust our seperate potentials individually without effecting our total value whereas before they could not.

[MightyKOko]

10/12 battle in tuck, need tank and 1 dps.

Although this doesn't go far enough to allow it, it would be nice to reply to the above and say "inv"

10/12 battle in tuck, need heal and cappy.
How many DPS classes can send "inv" and receive one?

What you want is to steal another class/player role, I say I like the captain where it is positioned now.
I like the control over the battle and the support in its finest - tanks tank better, healers heal better and DPSes DPS better when my cappy is there.
When I want to DPS I log my hunter.

As I said in my previous post - some suggestions like IDOME changes are needed, but overall in-depth class mechanic changes based on your solo-Ettens wishes are deep in the area of OP-ness. All that "math" and "equation" talk... lol!

[Armitas]

10/12 battle in tuck, need heal and cappy.
How many DPS classes can send "inv" and receive one?

Well I know two classes that given the same scenario (10/12 for battle in tuck, need tank and 1 dps. ) can say yes to either. Another class can enter as main heal or main dps. And there is another class that can enter as buffer and healer, called a minstrel, not a cappy healer, but a buffer and main healer. I want to enter as buffer or dps. What I suggest has enormous precedence.

As I said in my previous post - some suggestions like IDOME changes are needed, but overall in-depth class mechanic changes based on your solo-Ettens wishes are deep in the area of OP-ness. All that "math" and "equation" talk... lol!

All that "talk", now prove it!

Looking through your character list the highest rank freep appears to be rank 2 and a rank 3 creep? Do you have some other freeps/creeps you would like to share, perhaps maybe even a captain that has entered the moors before? I'll give you a moment to dig around, see if you can find anything that might move your unsubstantiated opinion to the realm of useful information.

[Almagnus1]

That said, there are 9 classes. If Captains get 2 out of the 12 spots in a raid (which is generally the case), we are already over-represented. If we are in any way seriously competitive for additional spots beyond 2, it seems to me very unfair to the other classes. IMHO the game/instance design has succeeded if there is little or no benefit to stacking, but rather class diversity is optimal...

**cough** BURGS **cough**

[Almagnus1]

What you want is to steal another class/player role, I say I like the captain where it is positioned now.
I like the control over the battle and the support in its finest - tanks tank better, healers heal better and DPSes DPS better when my cappy is there.
When I want to DPS I log my hunter.

And that should justify an abysmal solo 'Moors experience why?

[DelgonTheWise]

**cough** BURGS **cough**

That Burgs stack excessively (and sometimes abusively) well doesn't justify changing Captains to do the same IMHO...

[Narden_Aragwith]

In which way would it make a captain stack useful? Making them to be a viable Dps class doesn't nessesarily mean that they have things like stackable marks or debuffs like Counter Defense... stacking captains would be like stacking champs or hunters but with less dps

[Armitas]

^This is all down the road thinking. None of my suggestions are immediately powerful enough to make us a dps slot. However the idea behind what we are talking about is that the "buffing portion" would be turned off to allow the captain to partake another role besides buffing/and. So the way they would stack would be the same way a guard would stack with each other, one would be a full tank, and the other would be a full dps (while not equal to a true dps class). Or in our case one would be a buffer and one would be a dpser. But again this is all down the road thinking.

[Graycient]

^ See our threads about the value of Idome.

Yes, when there is no group to join I would like myself and other captains to effectivly be a part of the moors as much as any other class.

To be fair, Captain PvP is kinda sluggish if you're not in a group. Although if you do ditch all your healing stuff to build for DPS it will improve. But if you're gonna do that you might as well roll a champ. So I see where he's coming from on this.

[Almagnus1]

^This is all down the road thinking. None of my suggestions are immediately powerful enough to make us a dps slot. However the idea behind what we are talking about is that the "buffing portion" would be turned off to allow the captain to partake another role besides buffing/and. So the way they would stack would be the same way a guard would stack with each other, one would be a full tank, and the other would be a full dps (while not equal to a true dps class). Or in our case one would be a buffer and one would be a dpser. But again this is all down the road thinking.

Going off of this further, I'd rather see buffing idiot proofed, with an off switch option.

It's really in everyone's best interest to do this, and it also allows the captains to focus more on what they do IN ADDITION to buffing, rather than focus on something that is minimal amount of combat activities as it is.

[ferrariroger]

10/12 battle in tuck, need heal and cappy.
How many DPS classes can send "inv" and receive one?

What you want is to steal another class/player role, I say I like the captain where it is positioned now.
I like the control over the battle and the support in its finest - tanks tank better, healers heal better and DPSes DPS better when my cappy is there.
When I want to DPS I log my hunter.

As I said in my previous post - some suggestions like IDOME changes are needed, but overall in-depth class mechanic changes based on your solo-Ettens wishes are deep in the area of OP-ness. All that "math" and "equation" talk... lol!

You would not say that if your main char was a Captain.

[pocochocolino]

Thank God for captains like Amritas guys!! Thanks to him and some other smart and thoughtful captains I hope our voice is heard! We can't be at the bottom of the sparring list all the time I am so fed up with this and I play the captain for almost 4 years now. I know that we are mostly a fellowship class but so is a mini! However, a lot of minis run in the moors solo cause they can dps. I won't go into details and statistics but seeing the general picture is enough for me to see that a captain solo in the moors is more like a tin can. All these years playing the cappy I saw a decent amount of dps increase with the introduction of Moria but they nerfed that very fast. Hey at least with ROR we got a slow with cutting attack. I chaced so many times creeps with low morale and I could not get them cause there was not a way of slowing them down..Finally they gave the cappy a slow but we were the last class to get one. Don't get me wrong I love playing my captain and as an underdog we have to think of smart ways in order to make slight improvements. It will be nice to be perceived a little bit as a threat instead of a buffing stick don't you think?

A little story if you don't mind reading: I see a high ranked spider a few meters outside glan fighting a cappy. Before I could do anything the captain died. I go for it anyway and all I got was a rez!

[Finothir]

In my opinion, there is exactly one single, simple, yet powerful change that would allow the captain to be an equal DPS class and a lot more powerful for soloing in the moors:
make the legacy of -CD for Shadow's Lament the same as the one for Rallying Cry.
That's it. That would put us on par in terms of DPS with Champs or Hunters, this one little change.
With 6 seconds CD on this strong attack, which gives us access to the follow-ups if traited properly, we could also see more defeat events mid-combat, making us very strong in solo play in the moors.
However, this would probably make us pretty OP in PvE.

I have never understood why Rallying Cry gets a -30 seconds cooldown reduction while the damage equivalent of the defeat events (Shadow's Lament) gets only -15 seconds. Doesn't make sense if you ask me.

However, something I would also love to see would be our interrupt put on par with other classes. 15 seconds without, 5 seconds with the trait, just like burglars with their legacy. Why does it have to be a minute? Or 30 seconds if you are willing to spend a trait...

[Almagnus1]

In my opinion, there is exactly one single, simple, yet powerful change that would allow the captain to be an equal DPS class and a lot more powerful for soloing in the moors:
make the legacy of -CD for Shadow's Lament the same as the one for Rallying Cry.
That's it. That would put us on par in terms of DPS with Champs or Hunters, this one little change.
With 6 seconds CD on this strong attack, which gives us access to the follow-ups if traited properly, we could also see more defeat events mid-combat, making us very strong in solo play in the moors.
However, this would probably make us pretty OP in PvE.

I have never understood why Rallying Cry gets a -30 seconds cooldown reduction while the damage equivalent of the defeat events (Shadow's Lament) gets only -15 seconds. Doesn't make sense if you ask me.

However, something I would also love to see would be our interrupt put on par with other classes. 15 seconds without, 5 seconds with the trait, just like burglars with their legacy. Why does it have to be a minute? Or 30 seconds if you are willing to spend a trait...

Threat will become a huge issue with that, so it's no good for PvE stuff.

[Ailedra]

Alt classes are a sign of poor development.

This really is the crux of the larger discussion.

I think it's safe to say that everybody here plays a captain at least in part because they love the idea of what the captain brings to a group. They like the idea of a support class, and they like the playstyle of being a force-multiplier. I don't think anybody is arguing or would argue that.

I'd invite everybody, though, to look through the first 3 or 4 pages of this forum. Find all the "new captain question" posts where somebody is asking what captains do, how they play, how much fun they are, or that talk about the pain they're feeling as a level 30 captain. I'd challenge anybody to find one that DOESN'T eventually tell the questioner "get a group; captains don't really shine unless you have a group to run with."

That game-design concept is simply flat-out broken.

The fact is, 100% of players, and 100% of classes, solo for something. Leveling, skirm grinding, farming, PvMP until they join a group, whatever, everybody does it at some point or another. Currently, 8/9 LOTRO classes can do so with a minimum amount of pain...1/9 can't. That makes the 1/9 an incomplete class. 8/9 can participate without undue pain in both group and non-group content. 1/9 can only do so for group content. If any class compels you to either find a group immediately upon login, or log a different class, that's a problem. It just slays me that some people insist on pointing to a captain's group utility, and somehow try to use that as justification for why the solo Captain experience has to be manifestly more painful than everybody else's.

I can remember the days of pre-BC WoW, where once the raid was over, and everybody broke up to farm/PvP/quest/whatever, all the priests, druids, paladins, and shammies would all log out....you could watch it in guild chat...10 people would log out, and 10 alts would log in. Blizzard finally realized how horrible that design was, and started taking steps to fix it.

Different game, with different construction? Of course. I don't think anybody wants to see LOTRO go down the same path of class homogeneity. The design concept, however, remains the same...you shouldn't ever be compelled to log a different character to perform basic MMO functions.

Is Armitas' suggestion the cure-all for the issue? No, it's got flaws...the biggest is the one already pointed out: a legendary trait fix doesn't help the first 50 levels of existence. But I agree wholeheartedly with the idea behind it...let's at least get the ball moving in the right direction. As the wise hobbit said, "It's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish."

And yes, captains CAN obviously complete any current landscape content; this is obvious, or there'd be precious few level 85 captains. Can you honestly say they're as complete as the other 8 classes when doing so? Are they in any way more painful to do so with? Are there large level ranges where the pain is more clear? Why can't steps be taken to correct that?