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  1. #1
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    13.05.2009
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    221

    The Veteran Post

    I am looking for answers from the community . I have been a subscriber to the game for almost four years now and I feel the voice has never been heard. Putting huge amount of time into the game. Still loving the lore and the game itsself. I feel the issues that we have at hand are not being reconizged by the players and the developers.

    I heard the motto by people all day saying you cant make everyone happy. No one is trying to make any specific person happy but a group of people happy.

    We have the
    Pvpers
    Rpers
    Raiders
    Causuals

    From my stand point many people that are left playing the game are either put there time in pvp or the little pve we have. I want to disuss the issues we have with the current system. Looking to improve it for everyone.

    Lets start with the raiders.

    What does it mean to be a raider in a MMO or even lotro in specific. To me it means making friends, challenges, and rewards.
    Lets go back to the Barad Guldur days or even the rift days. The friends I raided with are still my friends today many years back and I look forward to meeting them in game when they do decide to log on. We are such close friends because of why? We overcomed the frustrations of a raid. Completed a common goal in the game. We were reward greatly for it amoungest other players.

    Not only the greatness of downing a raid for glory but the rewards were exclusive to the people who put fourth the time into the game and or raid in specific.

    Now its not the same with the raids or big battles. I know MANY others feel the same that lotro develpoers can BRING back such a system if they wanted.

    I simply suggest making a loot table similar to one that was already estabilshed in the game but only for raids. For example masterloot for raid exclusive items or roll/pass. Not the universal loot system for raids and content. I think its a great idea for causal players questing or even skirmishes . But hard content I beleive only the skilled in the matter should be rewarded for there time and frustrations.

    Let the rewards mean something. Give it meaning . Make it worth the money and time. Make us grind it each week again to get the class items with huge amounts of stats on it. I am all for it and was sad it change.

    Now lets talk about the diffiuclty in content right now.

    I dont mind the classes changes. Yes they made the classes easiser which makes the content easier. I know the develpoers can make a raid to make our new class and our older classes have trouble in a raid. Just need to make it hard. We need that challenge to ensure the fun in the game. Just look at the games activity over the last year. Its not because of life or new games its because we changed something that was so great into something that simply did not work. With the loot system to the no raid system. If you dont beleive me look at the raids that were fully functional and look at the down threads to the erobor down thread. It was a huge difference.

    I know turbine is great with community stuff but why are we so in the dark with this stuff? I just would like to know what the intentions on this matter. Why it happen . I dont think anyone cares if you would flat out say we dont have the money anmore to make the hard raids. We understand .

    Lets talk about pvp. Not about the imbalanced but the lack of customization. I personally spent four years amounst all toons and we all know pvp is time comsuming. The issue I beleive is the lack of customization in gear. Running with the same pvp sets for years is no fun.

    A simple solution that many dont even reconzie. Make audacity a stat only active in PVP which they already have the programming for but instead of gear which I think should still be a option.
    Make an audacity SCROLL that can be place on the gear from pve or crafted gear. I want to hear more feedback on this topic more than anything. I dont care about the overpowerment of creeps or the freeps but I care more about the time played out there with little rewardment. I know many have ideas on this but simple things class specific jewlery obtain at rank 10 with GREAT stats that non pvpers cant get will make them try pvp and spend more MONEY.

    I beleive the game can change again more towards these topics if people listen.. This is what a lot of people look forward to in the game. Friends being the top and rewardment.

    Please leave feedback I will do my best to reply to all comments but lets try to make the change for the better.

    This is a taste of what the community is like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K40RqQ1togM

    Jetsu
    Geändert von Shane412 (07.07.2014 um 21:25 Uhr)
    FEAR IS NOT REAL Jetsu RANK 12 SnH *
    .

  2. #2
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    10.10.2013
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    Zitat Zitat von Shane412 Beitrag anzeigen

    This is a taste of what the community is like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K40RqQ1togM

    Jetsu
    Wow. That's very touching, and very sad. The most beautiful MMO community related thing I've seen, and in the place you'd least expect (a pvp zone).

  3. #3
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    Zitat Zitat von Geldeger Beitrag anzeigen
    Wow. That's very touching, and very sad. The most beautiful MMO community related thing I've seen, and in the place you'd least expect (a pvp zone).
    I know turbine has a heart a for its community because now if you don't know that rock now has a spider npc on the rock across all servers .

    I just want to see more changes for the better to keep that community that is now gone.
    FEAR IS NOT REAL Jetsu RANK 12 SnH *
    .

  4. #4
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    Zitat Zitat von Shane412 Beitrag anzeigen
    I know turbine has a heart a for its community because now if you don't know that rock now has a spider npc on the rock across all servers .
    We were wondering about that. Beautiful gesture from Turbine.
    Trait trees have ruined the game

  5. #5
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    Zitat Zitat von Mucica Beitrag anzeigen
    We were wondering about that. Beautiful gesture from Turbine.
    Greatly but the games community is now at risk from how great it was . The game changes and I feel no one cares about it anymore . Only the members have the power . We need changes.
    FEAR IS NOT REAL Jetsu RANK 12 SnH *
    .

  6. #6
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    01.06.2011
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    I had no idea about that spider and had missed it since it was added.

    But what an absolutely lovely gesture from Turbine to a clearly hugely loved member of the community. I visited the rock just now and bowed. I never knew Nidor but I wanted to pay my respects anyway
    ~Commander Zaddoc the Undying
    The Lost Alliance, Evernight
    twitter.com/STARS_TyranT

  7. #7
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    19.04.2009
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    Shane/Jetsu...

    ...you have of course brought up the very issues that a very large segment of the player base agrees have contributed to the current state of the game. Group content in the form or instances/raids, viable pvmp additions, etc. give kinships a reason to form and people a reason to play together: the very core of what an MMO is supposed to accomplish.

    The current direction of the game, instead of addressing these issues, is instead focusing on solo landscape content. Though it's said group players are a minority, many of us have experienced the drop in server populations and kinship numbers that has resulted post Helm's Deep, when traditional group content was replaced by Big Battles. This is at the very least a correlative relationship (no traditional group content, fewer people logging in) and possibly a causal relationship (fewer people logging in BECAUSE there's no traditional group content).

    I, like you, have been with this game for several years. Many of us have. Most of us want to continue to support the game and the hard working development team, and to play this game for years to come. But like you said, when challenging content isn't delivered, the community starts to fracture. I'd love to see more group content delivered. I'd love to see my kinship and server numbers return to what they once were.

    We, as players/customers, can do one thing only: make sure our voices are heard. It's then in the hands of the business (in this case Turbine) to listen and act accordingly.

    And yes, that tribute you linked was awesome! Thanks for sharing it with us.

    Sincerely,

    Sethadamus of Gladden

  8. #8
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    21.09.2007
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    This game used to be very grouped focused at launch(where at the beginning of 50 cap, you couldn't even quest to 50 without grouping). By doing this, they pretty much crushed the solo community from trying to play this game at launch. So, 90% of the players who played the game were group focused players. Then, they started to try to appeal to the solo community, which pretty much drove all the raiders away. So now the game is pretty much just full of people who play the game out of the lore rather than players who care if they have to group or solo when they play the game.

    Imo, the main reason most raiders still play this game like jetsu said, is that they have a feeling of accomplishment and want to be able to keep what they have spent doing with their time rather then starting over in another game.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520 a00000006a7cc/signature.png]

  9. #9
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    Zitat Zitat von sethadamus Beitrag anzeigen
    ...you have of course brought up the very issues that a very large segment of the player base agrees have contributed to the current state of the game. Group content in the form or instances/raids, viable pvmp additions, etc. give kinships a reason to form and people a reason to play together: the very core of what an MMO is supposed to accomplish.

    The current direction of the game, instead of addressing these issues, is instead focusing on solo landscape content. Though it's said group players are a minority, many of us have experienced the drop in server populations and kinship numbers that has resulted post Helm's Deep, when traditional group content was replaced by Big Battles. This is at the very least a correlative relationship (no traditional group content, fewer people logging in) and possibly a causal relationship (fewer people logging in BECAUSE there's no traditional group content).

    I, like you, have been with this game for several years. Many of us have. Most of us want to continue to support the game and the hard working development team, and to play this game for years to come. But like you said, when challenging content isn't delivered, the community starts to fracture. I'd love to see more group content delivered. I'd love to see my kinship and server numbers return to what they once were.

    We, as players/customers, can do one thing only: make sure our voices are heard. It's then in the hands of the business (in this case Turbine) to listen and act accordingly.

    And yes, that tribute you linked was awesome! Thanks for sharing it with us.

    Sincerely,

    Sethadamus of Gladden
    A lot of people miss that point of a MMO .. Socialization and communicating with a group. Yet another issue with the game .. They never implamented a kinship as a whole challenge.. Benifits or good reason in being in one .. Whats the difference if the game would go offline ?
    FEAR IS NOT REAL Jetsu RANK 12 SnH *
    .

  10. #10
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    Zitat Zitat von sethadamus Beitrag anzeigen
    Group content in the form or instances/raids, viable pvmp additions, etc. give kinships a reason to form and people a reason to play together: the very core of what an MMO is supposed to accomplish.
    There are lots of ways for people to interact in MMOs, only one of which is via group instance/raid runs. Nothing wrong with group adventures, but it doesn't need to be the be-all and end-all of every MMO.

    The current direction of the game, instead of addressing these issues, is instead focusing on solo landscape content.
    Sure, because A) pretty much everyone consumes such content, B) primary solo/duo players are a majority in MMOs, and C) it's far less expensive to create per hour of gameplay than instances/raids are.

    I've been playing Elder Scrolls Online with one of my daughters the past few months, and it's a game which should be able to cater more to "grouping" than most MMOs because of the way it uses layering to put everyone onto a single 'world'. If an area is overcrowded, they spawn a new layer for it and new people/groups coming into the area will play in that layer. If a layer is too low in population, it will be dynamically merged with another - this is all seamless, and helps manage player densities quite a bit better than traditional MMOs do. Ad hoc groups are quite a bit easier to put together than they have been in LOTRO since maybe late 2007... it's routine for a "dark anchor" spawn to take 5 minutes or less to attract enough people to be able to defeat it.

    Yet, despite that, they've found that a majority of players are resistant to the "endgame" levels being difficult enough to nudge people into groups. No small number will simply give up on them and start a new character, or leave the game entirely. And as of this week (just 4 months after launch), those endgame levels have been reduced in difficulty to be closer to the first 50 levels - eminently soloable for median-skill players. There are dungeons and some tough "boss" encounters on the landscape for groups, but nearly 100% of the quest content can be soloed, and I'm quite sure that's for similar reasons that LOTRO has moved in that direction: it's both what they're hearing via feedback and what they're seeing in how people play.

    Of course, the "preferred groupers" aren't happy - it's next to impossible to please everyone on a finite budget.

    Khafar

  11. #11
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    19.04.2009
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    Hello Khafar!

    Thanks for the direct reply to my post, I always enjoy and appreciate thoughtful and intelligent discussion. I actually agree, in theory, with many of your points, I just don't agree with the execution of them by Turbine.

    First, you're absolutely right, dungeon running doesn't have to be the be-all-end-all of an mmo. But such content that obviously (at least in the past ) requires group coordination, higher stats, gear, etc. to successfully complete, uses the content PRIOR to it as a means to an end. In other words, the traditional structure/flow (which Turbine has followed up to HD) of an mmo, is as follows: you level up via open world content, at level dungeons, possibly pvp, to prepare yourself and others for the challenging content ahead (again, traditionally, higher end instances and/or world bosses, depending on the mmo). Crafting, also a "soloer" activity, is for this purpose as well: to improve one's character so as to make it suitable for higher end content.

    Now, you could argue--and it would be a perfectly valid argument worthy of serious consideration by those developing in the MMO genre, and we the players--if such a structure is "good" or "bad". Other mmo's have tried other things, sometimes in conjunction with traditional group content, sometimes to the exclusion of traditional group content. RIFT has their titular rifts, open world group activities. GW2 has group content peppered throughout their dynamic events system. There most definitely are other ways to accomplish group activities. The glaring difference between these games and LOTRO in it's current state should be obvious: those other games aren't doing those activities to the EXCLUSION of traditional content, but in ADDITION to it! Ironically, this is also exactly what the LOTRO team has also done until recently.

    Expansions in LOTRO prior to HD added new mechanics/systems, in ADDITION to the tried and true content: MoM saw LI's (not arguing the quality of their implementation here) AND a cluster many still see as among the best in the game; SoM introduced skirmishes AND gave us traditional group content; RoI and RoR also gave us group content (though delivered late) and RoR still managed to introduce mounted combat as well.

    And you're also right in stating that it's impossible to please everyone on a finite budget. But something should also be obvious there as well: all business endeavors have a finite budget! There's not a single business/company out there that possesses infinite resources, it's how they use it that defines their product and determines their customer numbers/satisfaction level. And though you can't please everyone all the time, you most certainly CAN please MOST of the people MOST of the time.

    But this requires that groups of your customers aren't ostracized and ignored. So let me propose an alternative for Turbine, rather than the current direction of cutting traditional group instance content, pvmp, housing, etc. in favor of a solitary focus on solo landscape/story content: Instead of cutting out entire segments of your customer base in favor of ONE, why not make across the board cuts to all aspects of the game, while continuing to produce content for all playstyles, even if this means in smaller chunks?

    In other words: instead of massive landscape additions full of solo activity, why not smaller landscape additions with at least an instance or two (even if you can't do a full cluster, why not one 3 man, 6 man, or raid?) some additions to pvmp objectives (even if you can't produce the long delayed/scrapped additional map) and some additions to housing (even if you can't provide the canceled revamp)? See what happens here? All play styles (meaning all customers, each and every one of which should be of value)--soloers, groupers, pvmpers, rp'ers--all have their preferred method of play represented. You're still providing, in whole, less content to work within whatever constraints the business faces, but the content that IS being delivered in this scenario is being spread among all the various play styles. You could even divvy up the releases: one update provides a small landscape/soloer addition to the game, the next release provides a couple instances, the one after that something for pvmpers or housing. Each play style/customer group gets its turn and their patronage is shown to be appreciated!

    This response is getting too long, so I'll bring it to a close. The current direction has some very obvious and evidential consequences that we're all seeing and are all aware of: fewer players logging in, server populations dropping, kinships fracturing, tension within the community as players are divided in response to the game direction, and of course, just as important if not more so, fewer dollars for the talented creative team that's delivered this game to us all these years.

    There's really only a couple options here: 1) The game continues on it's current course, most likely with similar results, or 2) Turbine truly listens to customer feedback, and takes the motto "Powered By Our Fans" seriously, and course corrects, acknowledging that all customers are valuable, and all play styles contribute to a vibrant, robust game community.

    Sethius

  12. #12
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    07.04.2007
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    It may be your suggestion for an Audacity Scroll is actually part of the Essence System that's coming up next week (eta 7/14). From the pre-views the system will allow you to install a "mod" (ala SWTOR) into parts of your armour kit. iirc The initial roll out will be a bit limited but they intend to roll it backwards to lower levels. Exactly what sort of items can be stuck in there I don't know. Perhaps Audacity will go away (like Radiance) and be replaced with this newer mechanic.

    The basic groups you ID are fine but there's shades of grey in each. The content has to be created and players consume content much faster than the Devs can create it. Raiders and others - steam roll through the content regardless of how much there is 2 or 3 days come to the forums to complain "there's nothing to do". It doesn't matter if it's the hardest dungeon ever created or the easiest landscape quests, in the years on the forum there are posts that follow that formula.

    There's not going to be much change in the current path. It's up to the players to find their own niche and make what they can of what's here. Players can find their own challenge, it's not the Devs providing it, it's the players making it themselves, but who wants to put down that nice L95+ First Ager and go with a landscape dropped weapon? No one stops any player from doing that but there's a inhibition to doing so. It's the same constraint that looks to the Devs to provide all the answers and all the entertainment.

    There's no single answer except you have a lot of good input and I would recommend you and others, apply for the Players Council 2015 when applications open. Your voice and ideas matter. They do listen. Sometimes they cannot change things but when they can they do.
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  13. #13
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    In the Ninky Nonk
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    Zitat Zitat von crl13107 Beitrag anzeigen
    This game used to be very grouped focused at launch(where at the beginning of 50 cap, you couldn't even quest to 50 without grouping). By doing this, they pretty much crushed the solo community from trying to play this game at launch. So, 90% of the players who played the game were group focused players. Then, they started to try to appeal to the solo community, which pretty much drove all the raiders away. So now the game is pretty much just full of people who play the game out of the lore rather than players who care if they have to group or solo when they play the game.

    Imo, the main reason most raiders still play this game like jetsu said, is that they have a feeling of accomplishment and want to be able to keep what they have spent doing with their time rather then starting over in another game.
    From April 07 to around September 07 I did very little group content and most of what I did do was the open-world group quests and epic instances that, at that time were very popular. I did not set foot inside GB, GA, Fornost and the rest until well into SOA and that was only after my main char was past lvl 30. The main difference back then was that there were huge numbers of players in a much narrower level band spread across a far smaller landmass than what we have now, so for someone like me who was playing the game casually, finding oneself in need of others to do a quest was not the problem that it is today, and back then I had no idea that /globallff even existed on Laurelin so I was having to find people on /lff and /region. Even pvmp had many casual players taking part.

    But, back then in 07 and 08 I never noticed this split between solo players and group players. We were just lotr fans having fun in a middle earth MMO and whether that was solo, group, raiding, pvpmp the community on lotro was probably then at its best. From what I recall, this split in the overall community between soloer and raider, casual v hardcore only started to come to the surface during MOM when radiance as a gating method began to cause problems with the cohesion of some kins and in particular for newer players who were late to the radiance party.
    <A sig goes here>

  14. #14
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    Zitat Zitat von Shane412 Beitrag anzeigen

    This is a taste of what the community is like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K40RqQ1togM

    Jetsu
    Damnit Jetsu.. Right in the feels.
    Borgorid of Arkenstone - Leithiani Officer
    r11 - Champ , r8 - Mini,

  15. #15
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    Zitat Zitat von BangoTwinkletoes Beitrag anzeigen
    But, back then in 07 and 08 I never noticed this split between solo players and group players. We were just lotr fans having fun in a middle earth MMO and whether that was solo, group, raiding, pvpmp the community on lotro was probably then at its best. From what I recall, this split in the overall community between soloer and raider, casual v hardcore only started to come to the surface during MOM when radiance as a gating method began to cause problems with the cohesion of some kins and in particular for newer players who were late to the radiance party.

    Ahhh radiance, I remember you fondly.

    <back to the point> I started playing right after Lothlorien was added to the game. Radiance was still in the game and it was one of two reasons to get grouped up, the other was Major Class items (I actually miss CD and Uru). I remember exactly what you are talking about, I ALSO remember that we had certain nights of the week where our Kin worked on getting people the Rad gear they needed. That gave me reason to group. Otherwise I generally don't group because I don't have to. If they made it where you had to then I would do it again in a heart beat. Sometimes I wonder if they should have kept Rad but added another type of gateing method so there was a group grind along with a solo grind.

  16. #16
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    Zitat Zitat von BangoTwinkletoes Beitrag anzeigen
    But, back then in 07 and 08 I never noticed this split between solo players and group players. We were just lotr fans having fun in a middle earth MMO and whether that was solo, group, raiding, pvpmp the community on lotro was probably then at its best.
    I remember that feeling. Not sure how accurate a perspective it is, but I do remember it.
    Leafblade, Captain
    [IMG]http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/70969104/2532739[/IMG]

  17. #17
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    Zitat Zitat von staveisle Beitrag anzeigen
    I remember that feeling. Not sure how accurate a perspective it is, but I do remember it.
    I don't. All I remember is the constant frustration of having all these group quests to do, including story/epic quests, and no one to group with to do them.

    The last time I grouped in the game was for that quest in the early part of the Lonelands, where you had to kill those spiders in the ditch. At the time they were elites.

    And that wasn't particularly rewarding, because one of the people in the group was high level, so basically we just watched him kill the spiders.

    All I remember is playing from pretty much level 25 on, and not having a single person in the game ever talk to me. All this talk about how wonderful the game was back in the old days is simply not true, at least in my experience.

  18. #18
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    Zitat Zitat von sethadamus Beitrag anzeigen
    And you're also right in stating that it's impossible to please everyone on a finite budget.
    To be more blunt about it, I meant "finite and almost certainly shrinking". They've now seen a couple of layoffs, and the one last year was significant. I went through that in the company I work for, and it was most unpleasant: in addition to the morale-killing episodes of watching good friends and talented coworkers leave, we wound up having to make extremely painful cuts in what we were attempting to do, focus on our core strengths (which provided the highest profit margins), and get our numbers back into an acceptable profitable status before our parent company ordered Even More Layoffs.

    And... it actually worked. We're growing again, hiring. We have a solid foundation, and are carefully building on the past few year's major successes. But we did have to disappoint some of our customers along the way just to survive.

    Instead of cutting out entire segments of your customer base in favor of ONE, why not make across the board cuts to all aspects of the game, while continuing to produce content for all playstyles, even if this means in smaller chunks?
    The surest path to mediocrity (and ultimately, failure) is to try and please everyone. I think Turbine has spread themselves too thin (starting way back in the year the game launched), which is why one system after another has wound up stagnant or abandoned over the years. With reduced staff and budget, it would be better in the long run if they strove to be Best Of Class in one or two things instead of "me too" in a dozen.

    Zitat Zitat von BangoTwinkletoes
    back then in 07 and 08 I never noticed this split between solo players and group players. We were just lotr fans having fun in a middle earth MMO and whether that was solo, group, raiding, pvmp...
    It was easy to be so back then. The live team for most games is quite a bit smaller than the development team that originally built it. Not so for LOTRO early on... the entire development team stayed on for some time after launch to try and give the game a great start (and they did!). That meant "something for everyone", and in good measure: housing, three new regions with many hundreds of quests, the game's first two raids, PvMP features, etc, etc. But that wasn't even remotely sustainable, and those times are long past.

    Khafar
    Geändert von Khafar (09.07.2014 um 22:52 Uhr)

  19. #19
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    Zitat Zitat von Shane412 Beitrag anzeigen
    A lot of people miss that point of a MMO .. Socialization and communicating with a group. Yet another issue with the game .. They never implamented a kinship as a whole challenge.. Benifits or good reason in being in one .. Whats the difference if the game would go offline ?
    Jetsu.. first of all.. "heya!" hope you are doing well. We miss you on Landy. After all these years I've finally leveled my burg and thought to go create a char on bw just to ask your advice Saragreen/Adagreen and the rest of the NG say hi!

    Very touching memorial to Nidor!

    Regarding your original post... I think what we are experiencing is a collective "dumbing down" or homogenization of the MMORPG. Ages ago EQ was the epic sort of mmorpg.. big raids.. lots of deaths.. leveling was unto itself an accomplishment, etc. Nowadays, I don't think a producer can bring an EQ-esque game to the market since the majority of players nowadays are looking for "casual play" and easy leveling. WoW was the enabler... Blizzard realized this generational shift and captialized on the collective dumbing-down and cartoonish gameplay. I think too it's a cultural shift in the generation to an expectation of entitlement. "Give me everything and I don't want to work hard to get it". Sadly, I don't know if it's a recoverable situation.

    Producers/developers are driven by money... and compete with first-person shooters and console-gaming. I'm sad to think that mmorpg's are going the way of the dodo bird
    [B]Numenorean Guard, Landroval[/B]
    [B][COLOR=ORANGE]Nuthor-R9 Hunter, Nuthric-R7 Champion, Nuthoranna-R6 Burglar, Nuthro-R0 Guardian, Gotku-R9 Warg[/B][/COLOR]

  20. #20
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    Zitat Zitat von Nuth_KM Beitrag anzeigen
    I don't know if it's a recoverable situation.
    It isn't. The calculus is really pretty simple. Recent MMORPGs cost a fortune to make, which means they must be designed to attract a broad audience, which means they must make most of their features and content accessible to median-skill players (at most) as well as accommodate players unable to commit much time.

    I doubt that's the type of game that at least the younger developers want to make, but it's the type of game that can actually generate enough revenues to survive (given development costs of $50-100+ million).

    MMORPGs were originally "niche" games, aimed at a pretty hardcore audience (who were virtually the only people willing to pay $15 a month to play a game long-term). WoW did indeed change that, and attracted nearly an order of magnitude more players than any prior MMO had. There will be no going back.

    Khafar

  21. #21
    Registriert seit
    07.04.2007
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    4.280
    Zitat Zitat von Khafar Beitrag anzeigen
    It isn't. The calculus is really pretty simple. Recent MMORPGs cost a fortune to make, which means they must be designed to attract a broad audience, which means they must make most of their features and content accessible to median-skill players (at most) as well as accommodate players unable to commit much time.

    I doubt that's the type of game that at least the younger developers want to make, but it's the type of game that can actually generate enough revenues to survive (given development costs of $50-100+ million).

    MMORPGs were originally "niche" games, aimed at a pretty hardcore audience (who were virtually the only people willing to pay $15 a month to play a game long-term). WoW did indeed change that, and attracted nearly an order of magnitude more players than any prior MMO had. There will be no going back.

    Khafar
    /+rep there

    New games are going to be aimed at the mobile data market - mobile phone/phablets and googleglass and wearables and anything with a high turnover and captive audience. People locked into cell phone contracts or single service providers (broadband cable) with their own bundled packages of stuff to follow you around worse than the NSA. Then there's the mega-content guys like FB who just want you on their portal so they can harvest your daily life in minute pieces to sell to the highest bidder and will give you zero-rate-mobile-data as long as you stay on their portal (ala FB-zero). There's a much bigger hunk of the pie being aimed at toddlers and younger like that new photo app geared for babies that allow them to snap selfies and paste cute graphics on them and send them to everyone on your buddy-list (and anyone else harvesting interesting pictures of kids).

    Yeppers - it's not Kanas anymore.
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  22. #22
    Registriert seit
    04.06.2011
    Ort
    In the Ninky Nonk
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    4.372
    Zitat Zitat von Nuth_KM Beitrag anzeigen
    Jetsu.. first of all.. "heya!" hope you are doing well. We miss you on Landy. After all these years I've finally leveled my burg and thought to go create a char on bw just to ask your advice Saragreen/Adagreen and the rest of the NG say hi!

    Very touching memorial to Nidor!

    Regarding your original post... I think what we are experiencing is a collective "dumbing down" or homogenization of the MMORPG. Ages ago EQ was the epic sort of mmorpg.. big raids.. lots of deaths.. leveling was unto itself an accomplishment, etc. Nowadays, I don't think a producer can bring an EQ-esque game to the market since the majority of players nowadays are looking for "casual play" and easy leveling. WoW was the enabler... Blizzard realized this generational shift and captialized on the collective dumbing-down and cartoonish gameplay. I think too it's a cultural shift in the generation to an expectation of entitlement. "Give me everything and I don't want to work hard to get it". Sadly, I don't know if it's a recoverable situation.

    Producers/developers are driven by money... and compete with first-person shooters and console-gaming. I'm sad to think that mmorpg's are going the way of the dodo bird
    That's some interesting points you've raised there. Certainly there's been a cultural shift from the old UO / EQ model - perhaps WoW had something to do with it by raising expectations as to the accessibility of all the content in a game!

    However as with TV, what I'm seeing there's now a move away from the homogenised all-encompassing MMO games to more niche products that have a specific focus or genre. Certainly there is no move away from multiplayer content - just look at the success of DAYZ that's still in apha and the MOBA genre which is attracting huge amounts of interest. As with mobile games, people want choice and to be able to select a game that meets their needs and requirements rather than stick with a single game come what may.

    Perhaps that's why players nowadays are more fickle and quick to "whine / complain" when content does not meet their expectations.
    <A sig goes here>

  23. #23
    Registriert seit
    22.03.2007
    Beiträge
    180
    Yes, they need to put all their resources into a new 12, 6 and 3 man (not a BB).

    But. . .

    Given the lack of resources to create new content, what could be done right away with minimal resources is just to change the loot tables and add more gold items in as rewards for completing 3, 6 and 12 man content. Go back to the way it was at lev 85. They took most of the gold items out of the loot table at 95, except for a couple of pieces in the BB 12 man. The lack of gold item rewards at 95 started the second big exodus from the game (the first was the new point system for skills), and the removal of 1st age symbols from WoS was the final straw; after that, almost everyone left.

    They main thing they could do to resuscitate the game would be to add gold items back to the loot tables (recipes and items) and restore WoS. That would buy them the 9 months they need to produce a new raid.

 

 

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