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  1. #1
    Registriert seit

    Advancement w/o Helm's Deep epic battles

    I have hesitated posting this for quite a while now, because I don't enjoy starting a snipe hunt; however, I realized that things can never change/improve if people don't say what's on their mind.
    This could just be me, venting, but I HATE strategy games and large scale battles. For me, MMORPG is about the RPG, not the MMO. I don't even like being forced to group in order to complete deeds or quests (Limelight Gorge comes to mind here). There are those who enjoy that type of gaming--I don't; I'm too afraid of messing up and getting someone else killed. If this game was available as a non-MMO, I'd play it in a heartbeat.
    It seems to me that much of the Helm's Deep quests are of the sort that have little to do with a character's class and skills, but rather with their ability to function on a larger field as a commander or leader. The last time I actually played, I quit in the middle of a quest because I was frustrated and angry. I like up close and personal; mano a mano; and, realizing that I wasn't really enjoying LotRO anymore, I quit playing for over a month. Logged in yesterday, and--meh--checked the store, paid rent on my housing and quit again.
    I am sure that there are thousands of players that LOVE the more grandiose play style, and that it has most likely attracted a whole horde of new, money-spending players, and good for you, Turbine, you're in business to make money; and good for them too, if this is what they enjoy; but, to paraphrase Mr. Darcy in Pride and Prejudice, getting friends is easy, keeping them is the hard part.
    I guess what I'm saying is--how about more solo content that doesn't seem like a rerun from every other area. Playing games is supposed to be fun, not frustrating; energizing not enervating. LotRO stopped being fun when I was no longer able to game on my terms.
    This is just my opinion, which I'm entitled to.
    I don't need a reply.
    I don't need anyone to agree with me.
    This just how I feel.
    Thanks for listening.

  2. #2
    Registriert seit
    I hope there next expansion is nothing like HD. HD has nothing for me. So when I get a character to that level, I am basically stuck. Am also tired of the continuing of mounted combat.

  3. #3
    Registriert seit
    Florida, USA
    I hear you, and I agree. I was so distraught at not being able to touch Limlight Gorge. Not to mention a few of the epic quests I had to outright skip because I needed other people. I solo/duo most of the time (duo because I'm primarily a DPS-charged hunter who needs a guardian to be a meat shield sometimes), and the few times I've randomly teamed up with people was a horrible disaster. They don't know what planning means in an RPG and just go right on into the fray expecting zero challenge. They died every time, leaving me to retreat in frustration.

    I haven't yet reached Helm's Deep story-wise, but I got the feel for what it entailed by poking at it when it was first released. I likely won't do any of it. It's the same reason I hardly ever do skirmishes -- I don't play the game to command troops and win battles. Isn't that what the strategy and simulation games are for? I'm in it for the story and my character and my own personal battles. 'Personal' being the key word here. Players like games where they are their own focus and can feel good about their achievements. What's the point of throwing your class and skills out the window? Why bother working at them for 95 levels? I'm sure it's because of allowing level 10 players to join in, but still. Options are nice to have.
    I can understand your anger at me, but what could you possibly have against the horse I rode in on?

    > Founder of Legacy of Narsilion on Arkenstone <
    - Extra Life Gamer | Captain of [+INT] Intelligence Modifiers -
    - GamerReverie.blogspot.com -

  4. #4
    Registriert seit
    Sounds almost like you're talking about two separate things here.

    Limelight Gorge basically required you to have a group in order to complete content. So if you don't like to group with other players, that's one concern. But that's not the case at all with Helm's Deep.

    Big Battles have a different mechanic that basically require you to do something other than play your class (unless you DPS). They don't require a group, but a lot of players don't like the mechanics. That's another concern.

    I'm not quite sure which one you're taking issue with, but in terms of Big Battles, overall for advancement, Big Battles really only matter for Big Battles. If you don't like participating there, you don't have to worry about gaining skill points, there's no group requirements or Big Battle requirements (other than the epic quest) to finish out Helm's Deep. Jewelry is available for purchase without ever needing to run a BB, and crafted jewelry (of the deep gear) is basically equivalent and in some ways even better than BB pieces.

    If you REALLY don't like BB and want to go into details with the Epic Quest line, I guess that's a fair argument, but it's such an easy and minor thing to complete, I could make the same argument about having to grind out the "slave" BS quests in Isengard.

  5. #5
    Registriert seit
    Perhaps I should have named my thread "Adventuring in Helm's Deep" rather than "Advancement..."
    I agree with you in one sense, that this seems like two separate issues, and that may be true for you. However, for me, it is one issue. It is possible (and having re-read my first post, highly likely) that I didn't make myself terribly clear.

    I spend my workday with people whose welfare I am responsible for--I don't want that in my play time. Whether I'm playing with/commanding PCs or NPCs, the issue to me is the same. I don't like being responsible for the lives of others, living or pixelated, when I'm off work. I don't want to see their virtual corpses falling around me. I want to finish every deed or quest I start--by myself. I get a personal sense of accomplishment whenever I clear out a deed page--on my own. Being forced to work with others, whether human or AI, to complete quests (Limelight), reputation/deeds (Wildermore), or work on the Epic Quest line makes the game less fun for me--me personally. I realize this is my problem, not yours.

    Do I like the mechanics of the Big Battles? Not really, but that's a separate issue, as is my opinion of mounted combat :-P

    Have I (finally) gotten my Character to 95? Yes, I have, by doing a lot of "grinding" in both West Rohan and the Helm's Deep areas--which doesn't really bother me as long as it makes sense in game. I've also finished most of my reputation/deeds (except Limelight and Rift, for obvious reasons).

    Do I feel that I paid for content I don't enjoy and will never finish? yes, I do feel that way, and (with the possible exception of dirty dishes) I don't like leaving things undone. I'm disappointed with HD because it seems geared to the Big Battles, which moved the nature of the gameplay further away from RPG where LotRO started, and also because I have to leave things undone that I would like to finish. Again--my problem, not yours.

    I realize what the MM stands for, and more and more games are going the MMO route. While MMOs are more expensive for the parent companies because of the equipment required to run them, they can also be cash-cows.... But I digress...

    I am concerned about where future expansions will take us in regards to RPG gameplay, and that some care will be taken to insure that everyone (soloist and groupers alike) can enjoy and survive--clear to the bitter heights of Mount Doom.

  6. #6
    Registriert seit
    I feel that it might be a good idea for me to weigh in here, at this point.

    I have a friend who is NOT a fan of Big (Epic) Battles. At. All. She was so frustrated and aggravated at trying to figure out what it was she was supposed to do in an area that was completely unfamiliar to her she wished she had not have spent her money on Helm's Deep because the Big Battles were required in order to finish the Epic story line. And the battles themselves were entirely too confusing to figure out for her. I spent a lot of time talking to her and reminding her of much the same thing I'm going to be saying here.

    Big Battles are a lot like skirmishes. They are a means for the game's developers to tell a story in a controlled space without any outside interference. Much like the skirmishes of Mirkwood, once they are done, you NEVER have to go back and revisit them ever again. Ever. Not if you don't want to. Now granted, there are some pretty sweet rewards waiting for players who decide they want to make a thing of it and do those skirmishes/big battles regularly, but you know what? It's no big loss if you don't. You can get other gear elsewhere that's just as good. No big thing.

    The other thing that I reminded her of is that the Big Battles mechanic IS NOT where Lord of the Rings Online is headed. Is not, will not ever. However, having said that, please realize that there WILL BE several opportunities in the future for Big Battles to come into play with regards to the story line. For example: as the ring draws closer to Mordor and the armies of Sauron close in on the White City and the men of Gondor rally from within the walls, there are several battles that happen. The Pelinor Fields. The City Gates. The Streets of Gondor. And what about something in front of the Black Gate? All of these moments are POWERFUL events that deserve to be done right if Turbine intends to let players experience being part of that. Big Battles is a way to let players be part of that.

    Now, I do realize that Big Battles may be just.....well....too big for some people to handle and still have fun. It was that way with my friend. I think she would have just preferred if the Big Battles were available as optional side-quests that she didn't actually have to participate in. Most of her frustration is that she didn't feel like she made a lick of difference. That what happened was going to happen anyway and it didn't matter if she was there or not. Such is the frustration of doing it solo.

    I think you may find the "responsibility for others' well being" does NOT exist in large groups where Big Battles are concerned. The developers took a different rout where BBs are concerned this time around. You as a player are entirely insignificant in the grand scheme of things. The enemies are after a target: a flag, a commanding officer, on optional objective. They don't give a rip about you and will not attack you, they've got higher priorities. I have never been in a large group of people in a big battle in which someone died before, unless they just got too close to enemy spawn points and were auto-killed. Player dead in combat in Big Battles just DOES NOT happen. So, that might be a little bit off your shoulders.

    Anyway, just something to think about.
    Allanar [Lv95 Huntsman] - Vilya

    Guilded Master Woodworker, Westemnet Master Forester, Westemnet Master Farmer
    Amateur Entrepreneur

  7. #7
    Registriert seit
    Gallifrey. I need a Jelly Baby.
    I'll be honest. I haven't done any Big Battles. My main, Nymphonic got to the gates of Helm's Deep and has been parked there ever since because I wanted to play alts and level. With that being said, I absolutely loathe skirmishes so I totally get that there are parts of the game that the OP does not like or wants to do again.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  8. #8
    Registriert seit

    Are the Epic Battles necessary to move on to Update 13 content ?

    I've had my highest level alt at 95 and at Helms Deep for months now and have no wish to even attempt the epic battles. I play solo and enjoy questing and don't want to be forced to do this type of play because it's not what I enjoy. I don't do skirmishes for the same reason.

    And I also really dislike mounted combat. The special skills each class has are nullified. I enjoy my Loremaster and the pets, in mounted combat my Loremaster is no different than any other class and that makes it totally boring. The same goes for any class, put them on horseback and throw their skills in a blender.

    The question I'd like answered is whether or not the Epic Battles are required to move on in the game ? Can I go on to Update 13, and the next Book without forcing myself to do something I so dislike. The game is supposed to be fun, not frustrating.

  9. #9
    Registriert seit
    MA, USA
    Zitat Zitat von Lycoria Beitrag anzeigen
    I've had my highest level alt at 95 and at Helms Deep for months now and have no wish to even attempt the epic battles. I play solo and enjoy questing and don't want to be forced to do this type of play because it's not what I enjoy. I don't do skirmishes for the same reason.

    And I also really dislike mounted combat. The special skills each class has are nullified. I enjoy my Loremaster and the pets, in mounted combat my Loremaster is no different than any other class and that makes it totally boring. The same goes for any class, put them on horseback and throw their skills in a blender.

    The question I'd like answered is whether or not the Epic Battles are required to move on in the game ? Can I go on to Update 13, and the next Book without forcing myself to do something I so dislike. The game is supposed to be fun, not frustrating.
    You have to do them each once as part of the Epic quest series for each character. You don't have to repeat them. Just once through in order to continue with the next book of the epic quest line in 13.

    Note that you can do the non-epic quests in 13 without doing any EB as long as you own HD expansion.
    The Lag is so bad I saw Sara Oakheart outrun someone - kickman77

    Cener, Ingo, Rilibald, Hesred, Halras, Belegthelion, Ingoror, Gloringo
    Arkenstone (ex-Elendilmir) - The Osgiliath Guard - http://www.theoldergamers.com

  10. #10
    Registriert seit
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Well, in order to do U13 content, you will need to finish the Helm's Deep epics. So you will need to do some of those BB, but only a few, and only with the most basic level of completion. You can do them solo, or you can ask someone to help you with them and do a duo/trio, but they do need to be completed to complete the epic quests in preparation for the U13 content.

    But I also wanted to point out, there is quite a volume of landscape quests/content in the Helm's Deep expansion that is fun and engaging, and doesn't require Big Battles. So there is a bit of something for everyone, really, except those who are hung up on specifically being able to do raid instances. But I've said this before, there's been raid content added within the past year or two so it's not like it's as glaring an omission as some people make it out to be.

  11. #11
    Registriert seit
    I agree with you about BBs. The #1 thing for me is that you don't get to play your class in a meaningful way. My guardian's force attacks might come in handy, but being a guardian is more than using force-attacks. I did some BBs on my mini and spent a lot of time healing banners. Lots of fun. Another thing is the non-intuitiveness of many side quests, as well as the strategy of NOT using rock drops, catapults, etc. From a RP standpoint, it would be a great idea to thin their numbers, so it's doubly frustrating to be in a raid telling people not to use the rock drops. I generally like grouping, but I don't like grouping for BBs. IMO it barely even counts as grouping, because in a group BB my role is not really to support the fellowship. My role is largely to protect NPCs, banners, supply crates, barricades, and so on.

    As far as Limlight Gorge....of course I know personal opinions vary, nothing wrong with that. But I actually really liked it. I liked grouping but at the time I wasn't very experienced at playing my class. Limlight Gorge was ideal because it wasn't terribly hard, but I still had the opportunity to work on tanking. And the rewards were worthwhile enough (with the bonus that RNG was not a big factor) that groups were constantly forming in glff and also in my semi-casual kin. For someone that likes grouping, it's nice to have content that people actually run.

  12. #12
    Registriert seit
    Im going to say this one time...

    At level 95 on any class there is no content you cannot solo that I can think of.

    Example: at level 95, on my hunter (which is not my group toon, I have a guard for that) I soloed my entire way to 95, did all my traits solo, did Limlight Gorge solo, soloed the bosses in Moria for traits, soloed my way to rank 5 in BBs, and numerous other things. I still plan on giving Carn Dum a try solo one of these days for fun.

    Yes, there may be a few things you cannot solo at level 95. These would be the higher level warbands, and obviously some content designed to be run with groups.

    Complaining about mounted combat does nothing. If you are playing a ranged class you can actually do most of the "mounted" combat on foot for landscape quests, but it will be harder obviously. Some of the instanced stuff, yeah, youre going to have to suck it up, and play along. My hunter has no issues with most mounted landscape mobs, but they do hit hard. My guardian absolutely has to be mounted to kill mounted landscape mobs efficiently.

    In short, no one is forcing you to group. Occasionally you may have to do something you dont like to advance yourself. Only you can decide if its worth it. Just be thankful that we arent back in the SoA time frame where you would routinely get crushed doing landscape content, and it forced you to group.

  13. #13
    Registriert seit
    Yes please.
    I really hate how the BBs work and I have no intention to ever run through them.
    It's like a big defensive skirmish that had a stroke.

  14. #14
    Registriert seit
    I would like to add my dislike for HD as well.
    Brought my huntress to level 95, and enjoying playing very much. even doing followships sometimes with the kids.

    But being forced to play BB in a wicked system wich I do not understand is awkward...

    Tried the second one several times, have no idea wat I'm supposed to do...
    Sincerely hope that this junk can be skipped on a future expansion.
    This is not what I'm in fore.

    If I want to play strategy games, I switch to board wargames...

  15. #15
    Registriert seit

    I actually don't mind BBs now. At first they were too confusing (and at times they still are - simple example is the "in game" Glittering Caves map, which is the single least useful map of a cave I've ever seen).

    What I really don't like is "grind 200 promo points whether you care about BBs or not, just to avoid feeling like a loser that missed out on the skill trait points needed to be good at your class".




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