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  1. #1
    Registriert seit
    25.04.2007
    Beiträge
    224

    Gameplay getting more linear?

    With a new update coming and having just leveled yet another character from 65 into the 90s I thought I'd post for others thoughts on this. Does the game feel like questing lines are getting more linear?
    Way back going into Esteldin or Angmar it could be a bit daunting to see 20 quests available. But players that took the time to read the quest bestowals could organize the quests into similar regions and make trips for a set of quests while still having others to complete. Now the game feels like it is automatically doing that for us by only giving us a few quests to pick up at a time.. and not always arranging them how we'd like.

    Edoras is a perfect example of that. On the first trip there no quests pop up except in the mead hall.. well ok it's story driven no problem but then once I start helping the Edoras people get ready there are still stages of when quests become available? It's too much.. Give me all the quests, let me decide which ones to do and which to leave.

    Examples are everywhere, but it does seem to be getting worse, in Snowbourne there were 2 lines if i remember right, go to fastred and get this group of quests then go again and get next group.. just let us get them all at once.

    I did see someone complaining about his in ooc too, since all the quests in a town are linear.. if there is a quest we don't want to do because it is obviously helping enemy for example or is something like picking up goat droppings with our shiny lvl 60 first age then we can't progress in the quests in that town.. (side note most recently i've ben leveling lm so no need to upgrade gear but balance is another issue and it's fun fighting in lvl 60 gear at lvl 90)

    So can we add an option.. open up town quest chains or skip undesirable quest .. something like Hero laughs in the spys face and refuses to collect weapons for enemy or mocks farmer and tells him to handle his own goat #@!$

    Or just change how quest lines are written.. this is an open world game, it shouldn't feel like we need to do every quest to progress the story!
    mudge lvl 65 hunter; 65 minstrel; 65 champion;65 burglar; 65 loremaster; 65 warden; 65 captain
    58 runekeeper.. retired
    vilya

  2. #2
    Registriert seit
    27.11.2007
    Ort
    BC Canada
    Beiträge
    898
    I agree.

    /words
    Townsperson says, "I'm having an adventure. I've paddled all the way from Frogmorton!"

  3. #3
    Registriert seit
    22.12.2008
    Ort
    Pacific Northwest
    Beiträge
    4.363
    In a word, yes.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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    GLADDEN SERVER
    Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10

  4. #4
    Registriert seit
    03.12.2010
    Ort
    USA
    Beiträge
    58
    This has been brought up in other threads, and yes the quest chains are getting more linear. It's most pronounced in HD, where there is a set quest line that you must follow to advance to the next town, but has been the trend since at least ROI.

    Basically, landscape content today consists of "Go to Town X, talk to this NPC to open up the quest chain...when finished advance to Town Y" - rinse and repeat until you hit the level cap. The days of picking and choosing which quests you want to complete are probably over for future and revamped content. I wouldn't be surprised if the updates to North Downs and Trollshaws resulted in the removal of fellowship quests, and made everything a linear solo-friendly quest chain, where you have no option of picking and choosing which quests you want to complete.
    Muzzli R11 Warg :: Snegluk R11 BA :: Muzzheal R8 Defiler --- [B]Brandywine[/B] [I]Cohorts of the Red Legion[/I]

    Nellavo R10 Mini --- [B]Nimrodel[/B] [I]Wizard's Fire[/I] :: Santapaws R7 Warg --- [B]Nimrodel[/B]

  5. #5
    Registriert seit
    10.03.2008
    Beiträge
    93
    I don't find HD to be as linear as RoR was. HD added level based vector quest from Rohirrim outside of each major town that send you off to find and talk to Gandalf when you hit an odd level like 87 (? this early, not sure), 89, 91, and 93. This is separate from the Epic quest line, which is purely linear. I've jumped around on all my characters such that at some points they had partially completed the content in each of several regions at the same time. Eventually they each had to go back and advance the Epic to finish up Edoras and complete the various regions in order to get the (nearly) final quest with the trait point reward.

    I did spend time with each character grinding out slayer deeds in order to earn XP, new recipes, task items for rep, and new LIs (I only use 3rd Age LIs for the most part, so an 86-87 LI beats an 85 hands down). This had me levelling earlier than quest completion would have done. I was also rotating between five characters when doing this.

    If you take a single 85 into HD and only do the quests, then it is pretty linear because you will be following the fixed track.

    I did like the old method where you could travel to a quest hub and just take a bunch of quests, then figure out how/when/if you wanted to do them. I also see how that confused some people

    I do think it would be reasonable to provide both for players. Create a linear Epic (which is inherently linear) plus an optionally linear series of non-Epic landscape quests. The latter can be followed from A to B to C if you prefer, or you can jump ahead and start (part of) the next set without completing the previous long arc. Then go back to finish or jump ahead more.

  6. #6
    Registriert seit
    24.11.2007
    Beiträge
    345
    During my downtown (everything that I wanted to do when I hit 95 was done) I leveled an alt thru moria. This is the first time I went after the revamp and they totally changed much of the questing. I felt that I was on rails. Granted you can skip quests and choose what zones you want to do but now it is like they are holding your hand and telling you which way to go. I guess some like that but for me moria lost its edge. It used to be dark and foreboding but now its like going through a theme park. They have goats everywhere so getting lost (I was the master of it) is not really possible. To me that is linear.

    HD was overall good quests and story line (minus the boring trivial) but they did force you to basically do every quest. It was ok for the first toon but after a few alts... You can skip I suppose but if you want the class points you have to basically do them all and if you want the rep (unless you use rep tomes) you have to do them all. That is also how I view linear. When the choices are taken from you. I think when they add the new content then leveling up to 95 will give a few more choices.
    they are all dead.. they just don't know it yet....

  7. #7
    Registriert seit
    27.09.2010
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    279
    No where is this brought home more than in Helms Derp with quests that have you making numerous trips from one place to another then back then return then back to that same place. All the while the Mithril Coin teleport is winking at you and you can hear the ghost of Fredelas chuckling as you wrestle with your conscience. I have never seen such shamelessly poor implementation in any other game.

  8. #8
    Registriert seit
    24.11.2007
    Beiträge
    345
    Zitat Zitat von HoldumDown Beitrag anzeigen
    No where is this brought home more than in Helms Derp with quests that have you making numerous trips from one place to another then back then return then back to that same place. All the while the Mithril Coin teleport is winking at you and you can hear the ghost of Fredelas chuckling as you wrestle with your conscience. I have never seen such shamelessly poor implementation in any other game.

    Most likely it was Fredelas's and others fault. Dwarven curses!
    they are all dead.. they just don't know it yet....

  9. #9
    Registriert seit
    01.06.2011
    Ort
    Cornwall, UK
    Beiträge
    1.383
    This is one reason why I haven't bought the last couple of expansions and have no intention of buying them. I play an MMO to wander and do what I want, not what someone says I have to do. If they want to make content linear, then they can play it themselves! This game has less and less going for it all the time.

  10. #10
    Registriert seit
    24.11.2007
    Beiträge
    345
    Zitat Zitat von podgie_bear Beitrag anzeigen
    This is one reason why I haven't bought the last couple of expansions and have no intention of buying them. I play an MMO to wander and do what I want, not what someone says I have to do. If they want to make content linear, then they can play it themselves! This game has less and less going for it all the time.
    I agree with you to some extent. But, in my opinion, The epic book (at least book Vol3 book 11) was well worth it. The writers and the world builders did an excellent job reliving an epic part of LOTR:TTT. The original price was too high IMO. Book 12 was meh and Book 13 was ok but because I don't like BB I could leave it. Some of the landscape quests were hit and miss, with mostly hits. But once you complete it with one character then it becomes more of a chore. My last few characters I am skirmishing, small groups and whatever else I can to level up (SH FTW!). The fact that you are forced to play the zones in a certain way becomes extremely tiresome. Also tying in the Class points sucks but I guess if they didn't then HD expansion would be even a less value.

    I am glad that I did buy it. I enjoying the Golden Hall. Plus new content is always good. I do wish however that I had a choice and could do in order or skip what I wanted to.
    they are all dead.. they just don't know it yet....

  11. #11
    Registriert seit
    12.09.2010
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    18
    The game started out being parabolic, f(x) = x^2+5x+6, and then it became linear, f(x) = x+3, and now it became more linear, f(x) = x, soon were gonna hit f(x) = 1

  12. #12
    Registriert seit
    01.06.2011
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    60
    I don't mind the epic quests being forced along a very specific path, it allows for nice story-telling and the little cinematic tricks which MadeOfLions sometimes mentions. I dislike 'railroading' in the landscape quests. I can live with a certain amount of quest-chaining within any given hub, but we should be allowed to roam around the hubs and pick up their quests as we please. This probably changes the type of story-telling that can be done on the landscape, but that's fine.

    If we consider the Lone Lands as an example. It has the usual linear storyline through the epic quests with some nice pieces drawn from the lore; viewing Gandalf's runes on Weathertop, meeting Radagast, etc. The hubs flow smoothly along that main road from the Forsaken Inn to Ost Guruth and on to the Last Bridge. You can pretty much travel through at your own pace. There isn't a strong plotline forcing you through these hubs, but there is absolutely a strong theme that evolves as you learn more about the eglain and the corruption from the swamp. Best of all, the zone wraps up with an instance pack that you get a glimpse of in the epic quest and can then revisit with a group to challenge the big villains of the piece.

    So strong linear plot in the epic quest, strong emergent theme in free-roaming landscape quests, cool lore elements available solo, final closure from group instances. That would be the recipe I recommend for all regions.

  13. #13
    Registriert seit
    21.12.2010
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    388
    If you really think it's linear now, wait till they "revamp" the mentioned areas
    Captains are clearly made of sunshine and rainbows. I thought that much was obvious. - RockX

    Essie - Tr.

  14. #14
    Registriert seit
    13.07.2008
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    1.830
    It's not just linearity that is the problem, it's also the bizarre gating of those linear quest lines.

    In order to open up a questline, you often have to do an initial, not so obvious quest. For instance, in the Bonevales, I ran into that bug that prevented me from starting a quest line, keeping me from getting enough quests to do the deed. But apparently there was another quest line that was started by finding an object in an obscure location and clicking on it. That gave me 7-8 more quests (enough to do the deed), but why on Earth did the quest line have to start from an object? Why couldn't any of the NPCs start it?

    If you want to reward exploration, then have the object spawn a quest. But just don't make something like that be required for a whole chain.

    I can understand wanting to be linear sometimes in order to tell a little story arc. But sometimes people just don't want to do a required quest, they shouldn't be walled off from later quests.

    I'd like to see them take a page of CoH, where once a day (or maybe week, don't remember), you could finish a quest without actually finishing it. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that will get EZ mode complaints, but it was a great way of skipping quests you got stuck on, or simply found distasteful.

  15. #15
    Registriert seit
    03.06.2011
    Ort
    South Tyrol, sadly in Italy
    Beiträge
    4.242
    Without having read too much of the above ... of course it's becoming more linear.

    What are we talking about all the time?
    "I wonder when we get so see Mordor"
    "Oh, Helms Deep will be cool (or not)"
    "i want to see Gondor"
    "Do you think they shut the servers down before we get to see Mordor?"

    In the "old days" this was not Lord of the Rings, this was Middle Earth, we only followed the story of Lord of the Rings roughly (Shadows of Angmar and Mirkwood are good examples), now and then we would meet a famous char. We followed the fellowship around the world (in Moria we saw: "What happened later?"), had our own story line.
    Now? We are bound very tight to the story of Lord of the Rings. Rohan DOES have it's own storyline, but it looks a lot like a filler so we can follow up the "main" story of LotR. now that we catched up with the fellowship players want to see Mordor and the big fights from the movies. Letting us catch up was probably the worst decision the designer team made so far, now there is no turning back. If we leave the LotR story now, players become annoyed.

  16. #16
    Registriert seit
    16.09.2011
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    1.118
    I didn't find RoR all that bad because you could go quest in any town you wanted at any time. In fact with my alts, I often skipped the lower level areas and ran to the more difficult content to level faster. Then I'd go back at cap and finish up any deeds I left behind. With HD though the horrible idea of gating trait points behind the landscape content has made me park all of my remaining alts at 85 and go play a different game. The landscape content in HD was so tedious and repetitive that I have no desire to run through it again. Worse even is being forced to do it all for the trait points.

    The Order of The Silver Flame - A fun, mature, helpful and friendly kin. Come join us on Silverlode!

  17. #17
    Registriert seit
    19.02.2007
    Beiträge
    172
    Raids and group oriented instances would help break the monotony of all that.

 

 

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