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  1. #101
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    Zitat Zitat von Dworin Beitrag anzeigen
    This might make sense if Aragorn had carried 3 different Andurils, or Frodo 3 different Stings. But with HD, gameplay just keeps getting further and further from LotR. And that makes me sad. About the only thing continuing to be worth it, is seeing landscape and characters as the storyline plays out. Beyond that? meh to the max.
    ... Loremaster was released with the game, RK with Moria... Nothing HD does takes you further from LOTR then the implications of implementing just these 2 classes that exist for many years now...

    LIs were added to the game many years ago... So basically you are ranting about things that existed for a long time now and blaming it on HD....

    Zitat Zitat von KarooOstrich Beitrag anzeigen
    100% agree with Chromite.

    If by improved you mean ridiculously OP in DPS tree... Then yes.

    However, it is insanely boring to play.
    Its interesting how those who openly and completely oppose the changes never have anything to say that backs up their claims... Its always: "i play guard beta, it no good, it bad"

    There are threads that you can easily find in which players actually explain the changes objectively... There are some good things and some bad (which is always the case) but overall it seems we are getting an improvement...
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    [COLOR=#ffffff][I][B]Only fools and dead men never change their mind[/B][/I][/COLOR][/CENTER]

  2. #102
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    Zitat Zitat von zagreb000 Beitrag anzeigen
    ... Loremaster was released with the game, RK with Moria... Nothing HD does takes you further from LOTR then the implications of implementing just these 2 classes that exist for many years now...

    LIs were added to the game many years ago... So basically you are ranting about things that existed for a long time now and blaming it on HD....



    Its interesting how those who openly and completely oppose the changes never have anything to say that backs up their claims... Its always: "i play guard beta, it no good, it bad"

    There are threads that you can easily find in which players actually explain the changes objectively... There are some good things and some bad (which is always the case) but overall it seems we are getting an improvement...
    Could it have a little something to do with the responses constructive critism got this beta round. Most boiling down to it's happening; deal with it or leave? just sayen

  3. #103
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    Zitat Zitat von Bendin Beitrag anzeigen
    Could it have a little something to do with the responses constructive critism got this beta round. Most boiling down to it's happening; deal with it or leave? just sayen
    I cant say anything on that topic, but no objective post i have read so far on the changes was free of criticism... There will always be things you can view as negative in these changes but after weighing the good and bad, it seems the changes are positive...

    There is a difference between constructive criticism and anti-change, non constructive, crybaby rants....
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    [COLOR=#ffffff][I][B]Only fools and dead men never change their mind[/B][/I][/COLOR][/CENTER]

  4. #104
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    Zitat Zitat von zagreb000 Beitrag anzeigen
    I cant say anything on that topic, but no objective post i have read so far on the changes was free of criticism... There will always be things you can view as negative in these changes but after weighing the good and bad, it seems the changes are positive...

    There is a difference between constructive criticism and anti-change, non constructive, crybaby rants....
    Welcome to a polarizing expansion. It has successfully split the community. What your seeing is a result of that combined with basic human nature (on both sides). The final verdict will have to wait till the weeks/months after the 18, but I'll just leave this caveat. No matter how it turns out the testers tried.

  5. #105
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    Zitat Zitat von zagreb000 Beitrag anzeigen
    LIs were added to the game many years ago... So basically you are ranting about things that existed for a long time now and blaming it on HD....
    Strawman. That's sad.

    That's not what I said. The fact is, prior to HD I could build myself a pretty nice FA sword. It has two legacies of *overwhelm* and one legacy of *To the King*, and I could trait those and still tank, using Overwhelm and To the King for damage. Now with HD, I find that Overwhelm and To the King are only available in the red line, so I have to trait red, or those legacies on my sword become useless. 3 out of 7 legacies, suddenly useless if I want a tank (Blue or Yellow) build. So do I want a second sword, for blue or yellow, and keep this one for red? Aragorn did not carry two Andurils.

    So, yes, the blame lies squarely on HD.
    Estellost, loving husband of the wonderful Shinarra

  6. #106
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    Zitat Zitat von Dworin Beitrag anzeigen
    Strawman. That's sad.

    That's not what I said. The fact is, prior to HD I could build myself a pretty nice FA sword. It has two legacies of *overwhelm* and one legacy of *To the King*, and I could trait those and still tank, using Overwhelm and To the King for damage. Now with HD, I find that Overwhelm and To the King are only available in the red line, so I have to trait red, or those legacies on my sword become useless. 3 out of 7 legacies, suddenly useless if I want a tank (Blue or Yellow) build. So do I want a second sword, for blue or yellow, and keep this one for red? Aragorn did not carry two Andurils.

    So, yes, the blame lies squarely on HD.
    Im sorry but you arent making any sense.... I have seen captains, RKs carrying 6 LIs claiming they need them.. I personally have 4 i need... So the issue of "aragorn did not carry two andurils" predates anything HD...
    Its tied into the LI system that existed long before...

    See, not a strawman..... Be happy
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    [COLOR=#ffffff][I][B]Only fools and dead men never change their mind[/B][/I][/COLOR][/CENTER]

  7. #107
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    Zitat Zitat von zagreb000 Beitrag anzeigen
    ... Loremaster was released with the game, RK with Moria... Nothing HD does takes you further from LOTR then the implications of implementing just these 2 classes that exist for many years now...

    LIs were added to the game many years ago... So basically you are ranting about things that existed for a long time now and blaming it on HD....



    Its interesting how those who openly and completely oppose the changes never have anything to say that backs up their claims... Its always: "i play guard beta, it no good, it bad"

    There are threads that you can easily find in which players actually explain the changes objectively... There are som looke good things and some bad (which is always the case) but overall it seems we are getting an improvement...
    I gave 'constructive' critisicm right up until the point it became abundantly clear Turbine were only interested in a certain type of feedback. The very limited range of options regarding the class surveys pretty much put the writing slapbang on the wall.

    I have since severely curtailed my game time, slowly resigning myself to the fact my time in ME is coming to a close.

    It is patently obvious that I am no longer the demographic gamer that is being catered for.

    To those that are happy with the upcoming changes and glorified quest pack... More power to you.

    Just be aware that ME is going to possibly be 'even' a little quieter sooner rather later.
    [LEFT][/LEFT][CENTER]Taff - [COLOR="#00FFFF"][FONT=Century Gothic][B]LANDROVAL[/B][/FONT][/COLOR]
    [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]Captain[/COLOR][/B]/Champion/Guardian/Hunter/Minstrel/Runekeeper
    “A hunted man sometimes wearies of distrust and longs for friendship.”[/CENTER]

  8. #108
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    Zitat Zitat von zagreb000 Beitrag anzeigen
    Im sorry but you arent making any sense.... I have seen captains, RKs carrying 6 LIs claiming they need them.. I personally have 4 i need... So the issue of "aragorn did not carry two andurils" predates anything HD...
    Its tied into the LI system that existed long before...

    See, not a strawman..... Be happy
    Strawman, yes. Prior to HD, my sword worked just fine in every situation I found myself in. After HD, it will be gimped, especially for tanking. I can't speak for what other folks had or felt they needed. I build a sword that suited me just fine whether I needed to tank or do damage. Now it no longer serves that function, especially for tanking, because if I build blue or yellow, 3 of 7 legacies will be useless: +crit to Overwhelm, +10% Overwhelm damage, and +10% To the King damage. The gimping of that sword lies at the feet of HD. I am happy. Just not with Turbine.
    Estellost, loving husband of the wonderful Shinarra

  9. #109
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    Zitat Zitat von Dworin Beitrag anzeigen
    Strawman, yes. Prior to HD, my sword worked just fine in every situation I found myself in. After HD, it will be gimped, especially for tanking. I can't speak for what other folks had or felt they needed. I build a sword that suited me just fine whether I needed to tank or do damage. Now it no longer serves that function, especially for tanking, because if I build blue or yellow, 3 of 7 legacies will be useless: +crit to Overwhelm, +10% Overwhelm damage, and +10% To the King damage. The gimping of that sword lies at the feet of HD. I am happy. Just not with Turbine.
    Ill try to explain this to you one more time then im done.... You said: " Aragorn didnt have to have 2 Anduril".... This issue existed from day 1 of Moria...So what you said above has absolutely nothing to do with HD....
    And it was not a strawman... The problem was that you were unable to express what you wanted to say in a proper manner... And that is not my problem... WHat i did was respond to your misplaced analogy saying that the issue you pointed out is not because of HD but instead existed long before.....

    But to adress the above.... You said your LI worked just fine is false and untrue.. Did the bash legacy work just fine when in OP with a 2 hander? No... How about your belt skills, catch a breath morale heal in OP, ward block rating, shield damage, guardian threat block/parry rating( no block), shield smash, shield wall... how about stagger legacies in blue while tanking? no again...

    Im not even going to go into the harsh drop of effectiveness of certain legacies while in the non intended trait lines...

    See the issue is not created by the class changes in HD but instead by the LI system... You are 5 years late on your comment...
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  10. #110
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    Zitat Zitat von zagreb000 Beitrag anzeigen
    Ill try to explain this to you one more time then im done.... You said: " Aragorn didnt have to have 2 Anduril".... This issue existed from day 1 of Moria...So what you said above has absolutely nothing to do with HD....
    And it was not a strawman... The problem was that you were unable to express what you wanted to say in a proper manner... And that is not my problem... WHat i did was respond to your misplaced analogy saying that the issue you pointed out is not because of HD but instead existed long before.....

    But to adress the above.... You said your LI worked just fine is false and untrue.. Did the bash legacy work just fine when in OP with a 2 hander? No... How about your belt skills, catch a breath morale heal in OP, ward block rating, shield damage, guardian threat block/parry rating( no block), shield smash, shield wall... how about stagger legacies in blue while tanking? no again...

    Im not even going to go into the harsh drop of effectiveness of certain legacies while in the non intended trait lines...

    See the issue is not created by the class changes in HD but instead by the LI system... You are 5 years late on your comment...
    I doubt you'll ever get an argument that LI's weren't always a fairly unpopular system, it just had the dubious honor of being less unpopular than radiance. But it is a cash cow it aint going anywhere. HD just adds another twist to it since class devs have/are/will be (depending on class some are farther than others) in the process of retooling them to match the new skills/traits. Then the balance passes. more tweaks ect. well after it's live.
    Geändert von Bendin (10.11.2013 um 16:32 Uhr)

  11. #111
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    Zitat Zitat von zagreb000 Beitrag anzeigen
    But to adress the above.... You said your LI worked just fine is false and untrue.. Did the bash legacy work just fine when in OP with a 2 hander? No... How about your belt skills, catch a breath morale heal in OP, ward block rating, shield damage, guardian threat block/parry rating( no block), shield smash, shield wall... how about stagger legacies in blue while tanking? no again...

    Im not even going to go into the harsh drop of effectiveness of certain legacies while in the non intended trait lines...

    See the issue is not created by the class changes in HD but instead by the LI system... You are 5 years late on your comment...
    You can say I'm lying all you want to and it won't change the facts. The fact is, whether you say it is *false and untrue* or not, I accomplished everything I wanted to accomplish, using that sword. Therefore it did work just fine. Clearly, it will be gimped when HD goes live, because three of the seven legacies I can now use on it will no longer be usable unless I am in a trait tree that I do not wish to be in. And that is the result of changes coming in HD. That didn't happen 5 years ago.

    I have gone, however, from being frustrated with trying to show people something that they just don't want to see, to being amused at people who seem to think the pig just needs another coat of lipstick. Rather than face reality, it's deny, divert, misdirect etc all in the name of putting the best spin on something that is going to cause (and is causing) a lot of angst.

    The fans of this expansion can keep tap-dancing till the cows come home. People will see for themselves on the 18th.
    Estellost, loving husband of the wonderful Shinarra

  12. #112
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    Zitat Zitat von Dworin Beitrag anzeigen
    You can say I'm lying all you want to and it won't change the facts. The fact is, whether you say it is *false and untrue* or not, I accomplished everything I wanted to accomplish, using that sword. Therefore it did work just fine. Clearly, it will be gimped when HD goes live, because three of the seven legacies I can now use on it will no longer be usable unless I am in a trait tree that I do not wish to be in. And that is the result of changes coming in HD. That didn't happen 5 years ago.

    I have gone, however, from being frustrated with trying to show people something that they just don't want to see, to being amused at people who seem to think the pig just needs another coat of lipstick. Rather than face reality, it's deny, divert, misdirect etc all in the name of putting the best spin on something that is going to cause (and is causing) a lot of angst.

    The fans of this expansion can keep tap-dancing till the cows come home. People will see for themselves on the 18th.
    /facepalm
    Im not calling you a liar, im just telling you that you are wrong... And providing actual facts with that... (See listed legacies above)
    The problem you are seeing is not because of HD, its because of the LI system.... So your comment is 5 years too late...

    The problem is that you try to shift the blame for the issues existing for a long time now to the new expansion and even though i dont agree with some changes in HD i find that completely unfair...
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    [COLOR=#ffffff][I][B]Only fools and dead men never change their mind[/B][/I][/COLOR][/CENTER]

  13. #113
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    Zitat Zitat von zagreb000 Beitrag anzeigen
    /facepalm
    Im not calling you a liar, im just telling you that you are wrong... And providing actual facts with that... (See listed legacies above)
    The problem you are seeing is not because of HD, its because of the LI system.... So your comment is 5 years too late...

    The problem is that you try to shift the blame for the issues existing for a long time now to the new expansion and even though i dont agree with some changes in HD i find that completely unfair...
    lol.

    So, even though *today* I used my sword, with the ability to use To the King and Overwhelm, (using the sword as it is now), but after HD goes live on the 18th I will not be able to use To the King and Overwhelm unless I am traited in the red tree, the blame was from 5 years ago. Wow, when did they invent time travel? You are trying to claim that something that has not happened yet, actually happened 5 years ago?

    Like I said. Amusing.

    *edit* Furthermore, you say I am wrong, but in what? Am I wrong that I can use Overwhelm and To the King today? Is that what you say I am wrong with? Or am I wrong that on the 18th, I'll have to trait in the red tree to use the Overwhelm and To the King legacies that I have on my sword at present?

    You want to show me facts that either of those two are wrong?
    Geändert von Dworin (10.11.2013 um 17:38 Uhr)
    Estellost, loving husband of the wonderful Shinarra

  14. #114
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    Zitat Zitat von Dworin Beitrag anzeigen
    lol.

    So, even though *today* I used my sword, with the ability to use To the King and Overwhelm, (using the sword as it is now), but after HD goes live on the 18th I will not be able to use To the King and Overwhelm unless I am traited in the red tree, the blame was from 5 years ago. Wow, when did they invent time travel? You are trying to claim that something that has not happened yet, actually happened 5 years ago?

    Like I said. Amusing.
    Arghh... Just Arghh....

    Didnt i just show you that in certain trait lines and builds certain skills and legacies do not work... I listed them above for all to see... Just like in certain specs, in beta, some skills and legacies do not work... How are you so shortsighted that you cant see beyond those 2 skills you lost... On live now, you have legacies and skills that you cant use just like those 2....

    So your Aragorn analogy refers to a long standing issue! Its completely misplaced in time...

    The problem is not HD but the Moria LI system...

    Im really done now.... Not repeating the same thing over again.
    [CENTER][URL="http://postimage.org/"][IMG]http://s5.postimg.org/oiz5srzbr/download_1.jpg[/IMG][/URL]


    [COLOR=#ffffff][I][B]Only fools and dead men never change their mind[/B][/I][/COLOR][/CENTER]

  15. #115
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    Zitat Zitat von zagreb000 Beitrag anzeigen
    Arghh... Just Arghh....

    Didnt i just show you that in certain trait lines and builds certain skills and legacies did not work... I listed them above for all to see... How are you so shortsighted that you cant see beyond those 2 skills you lost... On live now, you have legacies and skills that you cant use just like those 2....

    So your Aragorn analogy refers to a long standing issue! Its completely misplaced in time...

    The problem is not HD but the Moria LI system...

    Im really done now.... Not repeating the same thing over again.
    Totally missing the point. Totally.

    Get this, if you get nothing else: The reason I point to those two legacies *is because that is the way I chose to build the sword!*

    I didn't choose to build the sword with the other legacies. I built the dern thing the way *I* wanted it!! I built it the way I did for a specific purpose and I achieved that purpose. That sword as it is now works just fine for me because I built it. And after the 18th it will no longer do the job I built it to do, or at least it'll be gimped and I'll have to rebuild it into something lesser than it is now. That has NOTHING to do with Moria or 5 years ago. It has EVERYTHING to do with the changes that will come on the 18th.
    Estellost, loving husband of the wonderful Shinarra

  16. #116
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    Sigh.. wish you guys would have held this discussion with the current stuff in the guard forums instead of the pre-NDA stuff. Oh well.

  17. #117
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    Zitat Zitat von zagreb000 Beitrag anzeigen
    If there is one thing most people from beta agree on, its that the guardian class is improved... How do you have less choice now? What are you talking about?
    If a LM, champ, mini player said that, ok...

    But a guard? You call switching for a few seconds to a 2hander, while traited blue, DPSing?! I call it tickling... Now on live you dont have a choice if you start in blue line... You tank from mob 1, to boss...
    With the changes, if you dont want to tank you just switch between specs on the fly.... If a boss or a pull is better suited for the warden in your group you just switch..Thats called having a choice....

    This mindless negativity is just annoying.
    Zitat Zitat von ChromiteSwiftpaw Beitrag anzeigen
    I'm in the beta. I have a guardian. I do not feel it's improved. It's made stupid easy.. that is NOT an improvement.
    I'm in BETA to, with my GRD. I do not feel the GRD has improved, to me the GRD gets restricted. Less active skills at a time means less variety to gameplay. Less "playstyle" options means less individuality to your character which also means there will be less possibilities to stand out (within your class). Compensating by more impactful/harder hitting/OP skills just dumbes the gameplay down to the point where it's so dull that anyone that can press 1,2 - 1,2 - 1,2 can play a class and "function" properly.

    I'm not saying the class is broken as it is playable and it does function, but it's a lot less "fun" to play, to me at least.

    As for the tank-dps example I like to turn the situation around. Let's say you're happily DPSing in a 6-man whilst a warden or other GRD tanks. That main tank dies (dc, booted off platform, laps in concentration etc etc) and you are required to tank. You switch to a 1 hander and shield, but you can't grab anywhere near sufficient enough aggro/threat as you are traited in the DPS (red) tree and thus have no access to the skills you need to adequately control the fight. Sure you can force taunt your way, but that only works to a certain extent as you miss the passive threat multiplier from either the blue or yellow tree. So do the changes provide for adequate choice whilst fighting? No, not anywhere close.

    Zitat Zitat von Darlgon Beitrag anzeigen
    FYI, you are answering a thread with over a month old information. The info on the Guardian in HD beta is here:

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...mmary-Guardian
    Zitat Zitat von Darlgon Beitrag anzeigen
    Sigh.. wish you guys would have held this discussion with the current stuff in the guard forums instead of the pre-NDA stuff. Oh well.
    Yes, Marakot did answer to something I wrote over a month ago, but that does NOT mean my opinion or the info it's based on is outdated.

    I wrote (for the most part) that summary for the GRD, with the sole purpose to factually inform people who are not in BETA about the changes that are just around the corner. Just reading them may sound quite optimistic and an improvement, but the loss of "fun" by the above described factors still stands for me.
    [CENTER][B]Smartbean[/B] lvl 85 GRD - [B]Smartleaf[/B] lvl 78 LM - [B]Smarty[/B] lvl 75 CPT - [B]Smartina[/B] lvl 66 WRD - [B]Smartor[/B] lvl 66 CHMP[/CENTER]
    [CENTER][B]Smartyogi[/B] lvl 43 BEO - [B]Smartini[/B] lvl 38 HNT - [B]Smartion[/B] lvl 38 RNK - [B]Smartharad[/B] lvl 38 BRG[/CENTER]
    [CENTER]Leader of [B]Broken[/B] and part of the [B]Allies of Light[/B][/CENTER]

  18. #118
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    Zitat Zitat von Smartbean Beitrag anzeigen
    So do the changes provide for adequate choice whilst fighting? No, not anywhere close.
    See the problem is that you think "choice" is only reserved for the situation you pick... It is not... I gave you completely different example in which you actually do have more choice.

    Its basically: you win here, lose there... But to claim that there is no choice now, is foolish at best....
    [CENTER][URL="http://postimage.org/"][IMG]http://s5.postimg.org/oiz5srzbr/download_1.jpg[/IMG][/URL]


    [COLOR=#ffffff][I][B]Only fools and dead men never change their mind[/B][/I][/COLOR][/CENTER]

  19. #119
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    Zitat Zitat von zagreb000 Beitrag anzeigen
    See the problem is that you think "choice" is only reserved for the situation you pick... It is not... I gave you completely different example in which you actually do have more choice.

    Its basically: you win here, lose there... But to claim that there is no choice now, is foolish at best....
    Which is why I said "no adequate choice" and not no choice

    And furthermore the choice you speak of has always been there, you just needed to visit a bard.
    The on-the-fly retaiting/respeccing is handy, but has no added value if you can't do so in-combat. But then again if you can do it (as the trees currently are) in-combat it's OP.
    To solve the "need" to retrait/respec in-combat they should disconnect the skills from the trait trees, allow all those skills to be useable by default so people can still adequately respond to a situation in-combat. But hey-ho, I've been saying that since BETA 1.
    Geändert von Smartbean (11.11.2013 um 16:50 Uhr)
    [CENTER][B]Smartbean[/B] lvl 85 GRD - [B]Smartleaf[/B] lvl 78 LM - [B]Smarty[/B] lvl 75 CPT - [B]Smartina[/B] lvl 66 WRD - [B]Smartor[/B] lvl 66 CHMP[/CENTER]
    [CENTER][B]Smartyogi[/B] lvl 43 BEO - [B]Smartini[/B] lvl 38 HNT - [B]Smartion[/B] lvl 38 RNK - [B]Smartharad[/B] lvl 38 BRG[/CENTER]
    [CENTER]Leader of [B]Broken[/B] and part of the [B]Allies of Light[/B][/CENTER]

  20. #120
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    Zitat Zitat von Smartbean Beitrag anzeigen
    Which is why I said "no adequate choice" and not no choice

    And furthermore the choice you speak of has always been there, you just needed to visit a bard.
    The on-the-fly retaiting/respeccing is handy, but has no added value if you can't do so in-combat. But then again if you can do it (as the trees currently are) in-combat it's OP.
    To solve the "need" to retrait/respec in-combat they should disconnect the skills from the trait trees, allow all those skills to be useable by default so people can still adequately respond to a situation in-combat. But hey-ho, I've been saying that since BETA 1.

    I think it does... This way you can take advantage of every little advantage by switching between tanks... Same goes for DPS, etc... On live now you wouldnt take advantage of it because its too much of a hassle to keep leaving and reentering the instance...
    And thats just one example i could think of.....

    You proposal would effect all classes and create a completely unbalanced atmosphere.... Creating balance would be near impossible which is shown by the current state of the game.... Atm group play is horribly broken because of the class versatility you are proposing.... effectively supporting the status quo

    Players just dont want to acknowledge that because they feel so comfortable in their god mode builds.... If you had the situation you have on live now, in any other game, players would flip out...
    The only reason Lotro players turn their head to this is because the change took time and happened over the course of 2-3 years... and the game is solo/casual friendly with low percentages of pvpers and raiders...
    [CENTER][URL="http://postimage.org/"][IMG]http://s5.postimg.org/oiz5srzbr/download_1.jpg[/IMG][/URL]


    [COLOR=#ffffff][I][B]Only fools and dead men never change their mind[/B][/I][/COLOR][/CENTER]

  21. #121
    Registriert seit
    19.10.2010
    Beiträge
    6
    It doesn't really matter when the LI issues began, just that HD is exacerbating the problem(s). Less choice in personal builds, whether it is gear or traits or whatever, will lead to a great deal of frustration for many. I've always seen the concept of a legendary as being a single weapon/item that you kept with you, leveling it up with you, throughout your life in ME. Of course, having to re-create it every so often was a minor annoyance, we could deal with it, even though it conflicted with that basic concept.

    But now... on-the-fly trait swaps, multiple legendaries for different circumstances, no access to desired traits if you spec the "wrong' tree... just don't like it.

    Dworin and Smartbean have described the issues. I fully agree with them.

    Note: didn't mean to spark a heated argument here by answering a month-old post, but it's all still relevant.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/1321300000004797c/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  22. #122
    Registriert seit
    01.06.2011
    Ort
    Brentwood, Essex, UK
    Beiträge
    253
    Zitat Zitat von zagreb000 Beitrag anzeigen
    I think it does... This way you can take advantage of every little advantage by switching between tanks... Same goes for DPS, etc... On live now you wouldnt take advantage of it because its too much of a hassle to keep leaving and reentering the instance...
    And thats just one example i could think of.....

    You proposal would effect all classes and create a completely unbalanced atmosphere.... Creating balance would be near impossible which is shown by the current state of the game.... Atm group play is horribly broken because of the class versatility you are proposing.... effectively supporting the status quo

    Players just dont want to acknowledge that because they feel so comfortable in their god mode builds.... If you had the situation you have on live now, in any other game, players would flip out...
    The only reason Lotro players turn their head to this is because the change took time and happened over the course of 2-3 years... and the game is solo/casual friendly with low percentages of pvpers and raiders...
    I agree that going to the bard was sometimes more of a hassle and inconvenient, but then again they could have introduced this on-the-fly swapping separately from the trees and the skill gating among them. That alone would have been a good addition which could have improved gameplay, but the way they implemented the trees makes things worse than they are on live.

    You think group play already is horribly broken because of the versatility? After nov 18th it will be even more broken...because of the versatility. Turbine claimed to have made these changes to reduce homogeneity, whilst effectively they increased the homogeneity amongst tanks by 100%. Where on live the GRD and Warden are designed to (main!) tank, after the update the GRD, Warden, Champ and Captain are designed to (main!) tank, with the Champ and Captain having 1 whole tree dedicated just for a tanking role.

    In the process each and every class gets handicapped by the taking away of active skills from the quick slot bars, leaving everyone (but from my perspective the GRD in particular) unable to adequately respond to situations in combat as the skills that are active on live are not accessible any more after the update when you are traited in the wrong tree. The simple (or hard, if you prefer) choice of tree 1, 2 or 3 (or a combination/hybrid) does not provide the "basic" versatility that you should have to adequately respond to a situation in combat.
    [CENTER][B]Smartbean[/B] lvl 85 GRD - [B]Smartleaf[/B] lvl 78 LM - [B]Smarty[/B] lvl 75 CPT - [B]Smartina[/B] lvl 66 WRD - [B]Smartor[/B] lvl 66 CHMP[/CENTER]
    [CENTER][B]Smartyogi[/B] lvl 43 BEO - [B]Smartini[/B] lvl 38 HNT - [B]Smartion[/B] lvl 38 RNK - [B]Smartharad[/B] lvl 38 BRG[/CENTER]
    [CENTER]Leader of [B]Broken[/B] and part of the [B]Allies of Light[/B][/CENTER]

  23. #123
    Registriert seit
    01.06.2011
    Beiträge
    1.876
    Zitat Zitat von zagreb000 Beitrag anzeigen
    I think it does... This way you can take advantage of every little advantage by switching between tanks... Same goes for DPS, etc... On live now you wouldnt take advantage of it because its too much of a hassle to keep leaving and reentering the instance...
    And thats just one example i could think of.....

    You proposal would effect all classes and create a completely unbalanced atmosphere.... Creating balance would be near impossible which is shown by the current state of the game.... Atm group play is horribly broken because of the class versatility you are proposing.... effectively supporting the status quo

    Players just dont want to acknowledge that because they feel so comfortable in their god mode builds.... If you had the situation you have on live now, in any other game, players would flip out...
    The only reason Lotro players turn their head to this is because the change took time and happened over the course of 2-3 years... and the game is solo/casual friendly with low percentages of pvpers and raiders...
    I haven't noticed group play is broken or that my Hunter has a god-mode build. He's not raising the dead, tanking bosses or firing fire from his jockstrap.

    What I do see is some people playing their class really well because they've worked hard at it. But now there's nothing to work hard at. You know all there is to know about your new cartoon imitation classes in 20 minutes.

    And still there is no group content catering to this sudden Turbine concern with unbalanced classes or any on the horizon. All I see is an attempt to make it cheaper and easier to develop content while at the same time redefining character advancement as 'slowly winning back access to skills you had already'.

    If people want to pay for that then good luck to them. I accept that this is now actually a different, more simple game and it isn't aimed at people who want any sort of challenge. That's why it's on my ftp list and my actual real money goes on games that now better provide what I'm looking for.

    I think it's time people who don't like the new LOTRO-LITE just gave up the ghost and did the same. In 12 months time, if the horde of new casual players attracted to a limited tree system bolted on to a 7 year old engine hasn't rode in astride fat wallets, things will probably change again anyway.

    Meanwhile there's plenty of good games out there and more on the horizon. It's time to leave LOTRO-LITE and its players to get on with it. If like me you have a lifetime membership and plenty of tp you can still drop in occasionally when you get bored with having fun elsewhere.

  24. #124
    Registriert seit
    14.10.2007
    Beiträge
    3

    look at the big picture

    Zitat Zitat von Sapience Beitrag anzeigen
    Hey all, Verizal here to talk to you about all the fun, new changes coming up with the Guardian. I was pretty pumped when I found out that I was going to have the opportunity to work on this class, given both my experiences in LOTRO, and my inclination towards heavier classes in other MMOs. For whatever reason, the idea of charging headlong into battle, covered in plate, and swinging a giant axe appeals to me much more than hanging out on the outskirts of the fight, plinking away at the enemy and hoping they don’t look my way (sorry Hunters). It was with this sort of mentality that I tried to approach this rather sizeable revamp. [Read more]


    I play Blastard, on the Silverlode server. I've spent more 'played' time with the Guardian class than most, and have made some very viable suggestions
    in the past. One thing I completely disagree with is the fact that we should spend our ENTIRE time in combat fighting for aggro. We should have to do a few things to establish it in the begining, sure, but when it comes down to it, guards should have more threat anyone on the block hands down, head and shoulders above everyone else (ye though I walk through the valley...etc.)! I like being heavily armored and enjoying a good FIGHT, but spending the entire time establishing aggro gets boring fast. I'm not interested in med. armored wardens/ or non-shielded crunchy champs, so those 'suggestions' will be ignored. Once we establish aggro NO ONE should be able to pull it away...period! When I tried HD beta (my first beta since I started 6yrs ago)-- I found that I spent 50-60% of my points on the first tree, then split the rest between the last two trees...no one could touch my numbers. Pulling threat is important...for a while...but there are OTHER things I'd like to do during my fight as well (like kick ###!). Some of you are missing the big picture down there...(I do like the
    cosmetic shield suggestion--I've wanted to actually upload my OWN LOGO to my shield actually)...In addition to pulling the the threat, we need to be able
    take a royal pounding like NO one else (which I do better than most as well--no bragging intended)...ask around if your on the silverlode server...I am VERY
    shield oriented, and I'd like to do stuff with it during my fights (like a chop to the THROAT, or a face smash), but not if I'm constantly going "yoohoo, I'm over here!"...bah....once we have the aggro, thats it...move on to other things. BE a KNIGHT (that's what we are essentially--the one everyone runs to and hides behind)! Oh sorry I didn't see you floundering there...I had to keep this idiot's attention!
    I will say that I'm glad you didn't hose my 4k+ shield damage-and the extra bleeds, mits, self-heals aren't too shabby either...I really enjoy being a THREAT TO THE MASSES, but I also enjoy doing -OTHER- things as well during my fights!

    Think on these things...(this is also the first time in 6yrs I've felt motivated to share my concerns)

    Blastard
    Avatar of Chaos!
    Band of the Red Hand
    Silverlode Server

    "Chaos is the score upon which reality is written". --Henry Miller
    Geändert von Blastard (17.11.2013 um 11:47 Uhr)

  25. #125
    Registriert seit
    27.12.2010
    Beiträge
    77

    Thumbs down Apologies

    I have not read the entire thread but.... I am the first and only tank that completed all 3 erebor raids t2 on my server when 85 was cap so Id say Im a pretty good guard. The guardian class is broke. Blue line is terribly useless for tanking more than 2 mobs. You need to bring back littany of defiance as a threat generator, whirling retaliation as threat generator , vexing blow(which is useless now) and shield taunt add more threat passively ( sorry to be rude) and yes im telling not asking. Make them deep in blue line.

    It seems we are a poormans champ as we need dps to tank and shields are useless!!

    I have a capped champ and guard both fully geared. Tanking on them is scarily similar. They have become the same class. The parry/block response cancelling each other i believe is a known issue. We are the only class (and perhaps wardens) that CANNOT stack our main stat for our main role. I have gotten all pieces with 217 vitality and it has made tanking more difficult!!!!

    Come on really?? FIX THIS CLASS

 

 
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