Turbine Helms Deep Instance cluster and raids?

[Ruination44]

I'm also one of the many that would like to see some info on these Big Battles and maybe even some info about a new cluster and raid being in development, before I decide whether to purchase the expansion or not. I enjoy leveling characters and should have 9 85's ready for HD, but without something substantial to do at cap then I just can't be bothered.

To briefly touch on raiders leaving en masse, each person will probably have a different story to tell because I'm sure on some servers they have left, on others they haven't. I know from my personal experience that my kin is practically dead at this point. We were a top raiding kin back in the day of Rift and Hele, stayed that way with moria with DN, then started to taper off once BG came out. There wasn't enough content coming out to keep people interested and we went from having 2-3 raid groups down to barely being able to get enough for 1. At this point the majority of the people I've been raiding with for the past 4-5 years are gone and the kin is a ghost town. Personally I used to be one of those people there raiding 3 nights a week on a handful of toons and it was enjoyable content and everybody had fun. Now I, along with a large number of our raid, have either quit or only log in sporadically.

It's just disappointing because so many of us are huge fans of some of the raids that have been designed in the game (Rift will forever be my favourite group instance) and over the past few years it has been in steady decline. Maybe it's a cause of the player base not being there to meet the financial costs of that sort of development, maybe some of the developers have moved on to other Turbine projects or maybe it's simply a shift in focus to the simpler more mainstream things in the game. Regardless I along with many others had some great times raiding in lotro and hopefully someday we get something similar to it again.

So yes to more info on Big Battles and raids in general hehe

[NekuDoku]

Keep up the positive feedback all.

ty

[Whiperandwake]

I'm also one of the many that would like to see some info on these Big Battles and maybe even some info about a new cluster and raid being in development, before I decide whether to purchase the expansion or not. I enjoy leveling characters and should have 9 85's ready for HD, but without something substantial to do at cap then I just can't be bothered.

To briefly touch on raiders leaving en masse, each person will probably have a different story to tell because I'm sure on some servers they have left, on others they haven't. I know from my personal experience that my kin is practically dead at this point. We were a top raiding kin back in the day of Rift and Hele, stayed that way with moria with DN, then started to taper off once BG came out. There wasn't enough content coming out to keep people interested and we went from having 2-3 raid groups down to barely being able to get enough for 1. At this point the majority of the people I've been raiding with for the past 4-5 years are gone and the kin is a ghost town. Personally I used to be one of those people there raiding 3 nights a week on a handful of toons and it was enjoyable content and everybody had fun. Now I, along with a large number of our raid, have either quit or only log in sporadically.

It's just disappointing because so many of us are huge fans of some of the raids that have been designed in the game (Rift will forever be my favourite group instance) and over the past few years it has been in steady decline. Maybe it's a cause of the player base not being there to meet the financial costs of that sort of development, maybe some of the developers have moved on to other Turbine projects or maybe it's simply a shift in focus to the simpler more mainstream things in the game. Regardless I along with many others had some great times raiding in lotro and hopefully someday we get something similar to it again.

So yes to more info on Big Battles and raids in general hehe

im sorry to inform you that they have stated that a new Raid or instance cluster is NOT even in development yet and WILL NOT BE until AFTER helms deep launches, given a normal 15-18 month development cycle for a new cluster we pretty much can expect to screw the pooch as far as a new cluster for the duration of Helms Deep, however they probably will scale either ToO or angmar instances

[robbie1435]

however they probably will scale either ToO or angmar instances

Finally!!! Lvl 95 Carn Dum, here comes GLorgy!

[Minquinn]

Now that the evil raiders are out of Lotro, the game will be thriving with more and more fun jobs to do! I expect tons of new festivals, tons of new cosmetics, tons of crafting and housing improvements, hobbies etc.

After all, with no need to cater to this evil "single digit" (I'm still wondering what were the parameters used to achieve such score...) play style, Turbine can finally put all their resources to other aspects of the game 90%+ of folks seem to enjoy.

My guess is that the very few PvPers left in Elendilmir are the next one to leave. Again, another sector of the population who doesn't matter.

Hey, Turbine must be making tons of money from the non-raiders to make up for the loss of the "evil" sector.

This is about how I feel every time I visit this forum. No one is allowed to comment on any content that allows more than 2 people to team up to complete it with out being told that either turbine doesn't have the loot to produce it or that players are just a small part of the population. I was even attacked on this forum for asking other players how they met quest buddies. The snarky remark was that it's not the developers job to force people to play with me. Because everything in this game other than solo skirms or solo quests is forced grouping. No one ever told me when I started that if I wanted to play Lotro I would be forced to group the entire game.

If you enjoy any part of the 3, 6 or 12 man content you are classified as a raider. Even though it is called an Instance Cluster it should be called a Raider cluster.

What is a raider? (if you believe any of this or not, it matters not you will be stereotyped as such)
1. You don't want anyone to ever get any piece of gear that may even be close to raid quality through anything other than a raid
2. Raids are about the loot and not about the content you use the loot to defeat.
3. Raiders hate everyone but raiders
4. Raiders get upset at the drop of a hat and explode on any "normal" player when they make even the slightest mistake.
5. Raiders price gouge everything in the AH to punish those players not using the content who want what they have.
6. Raiders are just pompous, arrogant windbags that believe the game should solely be designed for their benefit alone. No one else should receive any content

I'm sure there are more but these are the ones I can think of.

just because you post in every thread on every page doesn't mean your opinion is the correct one.

[Aidus]

What is a raider? (if you believe any of this or not, it matters not you will be stereotyped as such)
1. You don't want anyone to ever get any piece of gear that may even be close to raid quality through anything other than a raid
2. Raids are about the loot and not about the content you use the loot to defeat.
3. Raiders hate everyone but raiders
4. Raiders get upset at the drop of a hat and explode on any "normal" player when they make even the slightest mistake.
5. Raiders price gouge everything in the AH to punish those players not using the content who want what they have.
6. Raiders are just pompous, arrogant windbags that believe the game should solely be designed for their benefit alone. No one else should receive any content

I'm sure there are more but these are the ones I can think of.

EPIC I AM A RAIDER!

Cool thanks!

[Dordain]

Minquinn, you and I seem to be thinking of the exact same people. They earn bonus Fail Points for having literally thousands of posts here on the forums, yet not even knowing what basic terminology like "Aggro" or "Progressive Raiding" mean(How is that even possible?!?!). They've shown on a number of occasions that they don't grok the concept of "Raids Mechanics", assuming that a "Raid" is nothing more than a bunch of immature, hate-filled children that all gang up willy-nilly on a big bag of hit points. Yet, they continue to saddle everyone else with bigoted stereotypes based on nothing more than a difference in preferred playstyles.

Extra-Special bonus Fail Points for people that imagine that anything more than .5% "Raiders" care what anyone in Bree thinks of their gear. I like to work towards my own goals for my own intrinsic satisfaction, thank you very much.

[Aidus]

Minquinn, you and I seem to be thinking of the exact same people. They earn bonus Fail Points for having literally thousands of posts here on the forums, yet not even knowing what basic terminology like "Aggro" or "Progressive Raiding" mean(How is that even possible?!?!). They've shown on a number of occasions that they don't grok the concept of "Raids Mechanics", assuming that a "Raid" is nothing more than a bunch of immature, hate-filled children that all gang up willy-nilly on a big bag of hit points. Yet, they continue to saddle everyone else with bigoted stereotypes based on nothing more than a difference in preferred playstyles.

Extra-Special bonus Fail Points for people that imagine that anything more than .5% "Raiders" care what anyone in Bree thinks of their gear. I like to work towards my own goals for my own intrinsic satisfaction, thank you very much.

Ohhh to be able to work towards and progress towards gear rather than farm xxxx and buy it. Bleh I miss that.

[Thorwyn99]

This is about how I feel every time I visit this forum. No one is allowed to comment on any content that allows more than 2 people to team up to complete it with out being told that either turbine doesn't have the loot to produce it or that players are just a small part of the population. I was even attacked on this forum for asking other players how they met quest buddies. The snarky remark was that it's not the developers job to force people to play with me. Because everything in this game other than solo skirms or solo quests is forced grouping. No one ever told me when I started that if I wanted to play Lotro I would be forced to group the entire game.

If you enjoy any part of the 3, 6 or 12 man content you are classified as a raider. Even though it is called an Instance Cluster it should be called a Raider cluster.

What is a raider? (if you believe any of this or not, it matters not you will be stereotyped as such)
1. You don't want anyone to ever get any piece of gear that may even be close to raid quality through anything other than a raid
2. Raids are about the loot and not about the content you use the loot to defeat.
3. Raiders hate everyone but raiders
4. Raiders get upset at the drop of a hat and explode on any "normal" player when they make even the slightest mistake.
5. Raiders price gouge everything in the AH to punish those players not using the content who want what they have.
6. Raiders are just pompous, arrogant windbags that believe the game should solely be designed for their benefit alone. No one else should receive any content

I'm sure there are more but these are the ones I can think of.

just because you post in every thread on every page doesn't mean your opinion is the correct one.

It would probably help the view if the people complaining about the lack of instances (which isn't unjustified) wouldn't demean other play styles in every second post they make, but eh lost cause.
And for the love of whichever god you believe in, i know not everyone is like that, maybe not even a majority but you know the bad ones tend to stick longer.

[robbie1435]

What is a raider? (if you believe any of this or not, it matters not you will be stereotyped as such)
1. You don't want anyone to ever get any piece of gear that may even be close to raid quality through anything other than a raid
2. Raids are about the loot and not about the content you use the loot to defeat.
3. Raiders hate everyone but raiders
4. Raiders get upset at the drop of a hat and explode on any "normal" player when they make even the slightest mistake.
5. Raiders price gouge everything in the AH to punish those players not using the content who want what they have.
6. Raiders are just pompous, arrogant windbags that believe the game should solely be designed for their benefit alone. No one else should receive any content

I like Library, so that makes me a raider? Because I don't check off on ANYTHING on that list...

[NekuDoku]

Great feedback all.

Keep up all the positive ideas all!

[Slangin]

Luckily for people who enjoy challenging end game raids/instances there's a new game that has been out for a few weeks now that can more than satisfy that. The fact that they can release an expansion (for 60 bucks lol) without adding even a semblance of a new raid is hilarious.

[Calta]

Ohhh to be able to work towards and progress towards gear rather than farm xxxx and buy it. Bleh I miss that.

I had another taste of that feeling recently. I started another ministrel on another server and I've been lucky enough to run some old content on level, with my lovely new kinnies , friend met in pugs and in a duo with a level 85 friend. I saved up medallions and got my mighty verse set. Something I had not done on my first because I was still soloing ostly in those days. It was so rewarding. And interesting because the content of e ach level instance progressed as well. New mechanics. New damage types. Good geat and a means of earning it. RoI had that, too, and I would love to do the progression for the Dirge singers set or the ToO one for my minstrel (now level 77 ) but it isn't gping to happen. because I'm aready in Rohan.

So I've been thinking that it's such a pity most new players will only see a couple of different instances every ten levels., when there is so much else to do!

So rather than worrying about Helms Deep being raid free and my main being bored,, I started open level kin runs on my new server. We set it at 4 levels above the lowest player and we do an instance. I have banned Sambrog except for FTP kinnies to unlock it ONCE! So we run Fornost., Annuminas, and Erebor stuff. We unlock for anyone who wants to come. And because it's for fun and to learn basics l(ike how to play differently in a group, when to pot, where to stand and the instance mechanics) we can run it with almost any numbers of players /levels. Kinnies who exclusively solod to 85 come to try their first group, people bring alts for fun, and we open it to friends if it's not full. We do some things 'by the book'-target assist, ready checks, wait for buffs, eat, etc. And we run it till we beat it. We try not to use guides. We have such fun because it's full of intrinsic motivsators-affiliation, new challenge, applied learning, skill sharing, helping others., FUN !!! as well as extrinsic (deeds loot). The' never been in a group' players are hooked.

You see, my evil plan is to insidiously beguile new players in the kin into doing all the older more complex stuff like OD Lost temple Rift ToO, because they've got a taste for grouping and now they want the 'hard stuff' not just the same old stuff. And as i missed most of this stuff first time through, it will all be new to me too. This is how I hope to have people to keep raiding and grouping with-evenn without new raids.

[Minquinn]

I like Library, so that makes me a raider? Because I don't check off on ANYTHING on that list...

Allow me to elaborate in case you missed the sarcasm.

About a month or 2 ago I started a thread asking players how they went about meeting quest buddies. These were the responses to that thread:

"What baffles me the most is that you seem to be pissed at the game (and all those players that "sadden" you) for not providing you with a reliable stream of people that want to play with you whenever you feel like it.

Well unsurprisingly, people do not play this game only to satisfy your need for social interaction. They play for their own satisfaction, and sometimes (can't predict where or when - and most importantly you can't force it if you want it to be meaningful) your needs and their needs mesh and something cool happens."

"There is nothing about MMORPG that means that I must team with or interact with any other player in the shared world."

Now this is just a small sample of the responses from many of my posts. But these are the most telling. Apparently asking where to find a questing buddy is asking for forced grouping. Ask the same question equates to forcing people to play the game for my own personal satisfaction.

Read any thread about raids, grouping PVP etc. and you'll see this very mentality. Read this thread and another similar thread to find the same people posting on multiple pages using the words playstyle, forced grouping, less than 10%. This forum is a joke. It's only 10 people fighting an already won battle in every thread.

[Minquinn]

It would probably help the view if the people complaining about the lack of instances (which isn't unjustified) wouldn't demean other play styles in every second post they make, but eh lost cause.
And for the love of whichever god you believe in, i know not everyone is like that, maybe not even a majority but you know the bad ones tend to stick longer.

It would help the view but we are talking about like 5 people. Meanwhile the opposite side had 10 to 15 in each thread saying the exact opposite.
Would it help the view if these players didn't comment? Sure.
As it would if the people who did not enjoy the group content stayed out of threads like these instead of constantly coming into them to press a boot heel on the remaining players that enjoy grouping.

[Damojo]

It would help the view but we are talking about like 5 people. Meanwhile the opposite side had 10 to 15 in each thread saying the exact opposite.
Would it help the view if these players didn't comment? Sure.
As it would if the people who did not enjoy the group content stayed out of threads like these instead of constantly coming into them to press a boot heel on the remaining players that enjoy grouping.

It's a public forum, people have a right to post their opinion. Get over it.
And if you're bothered by polarised arguments from people on different "sides", it would make sense to not pigeonhole people and continue the confrontation yourself.

[Khafar]

Allow me to elaborate in case you missed the sarcasm.

Well, in your second post in that thread you said this:

If they are, the solo play they offer is quite inferior to other solo RPG's. Games like Dragon's Dogma, Dragons Age, Skyrim, etc. are the leaders in this market.

The implication (that soloers in MMOs would be better off playing single-player games) is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. If you want to pick a fight with soloers, that's a good way to do it... just for future reference. Adding this later didn't help either:

The content I was talking about was almost 100% solo. I just found it to be more enjoyable with other players. It saddens me that there are players that feel they should never have to interact with other players...

That implication is of course that Solo = Hermit, another hot-button.

You were mostly quite reasonable in that thread, but once the fire starts... there will be no putting it out. People's passions for the topic are too high, and probably always will be. When raiders were riding high, people like me were continually told that we should go elsewhere, that we'll ruin MMOs, etc. Hell, that sentiment still shows up regularly - more "angry" than "contemptuous" now.

Soloers aren't any better, of course. I realize that when I say it makes good sense to try to broaden the players who participate in endgame via a mechanic like Epic Battles, raiders are going to hear "so that means no more raids!". That isn't what I mean, just like your intent in that other thread wasn't to tell soloers that they're hermits who don't belong in MMOs.

Khafar

[Minquinn]

Well, in your second post in that thread you said this:

If they are, the solo play they offer is quite inferior to other solo RPG's. Games like Dragon's Dogma, Dragons Age, Skyrim, etc. are the leaders in this market.

The implication (that soloers in MMOs would be better off playing single-player games) is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. If you want to pick a fight with soloers, that's a good way to do it... just for future reference. Adding this later didn't help either:

The content I was talking about was almost 100% solo. I just found it to be more enjoyable with other players. It saddens me that there are players that feel they should never have to interact with other players...

That implication is of course that Solo = Hermit, another hot-button.

You were mostly quite reasonable in that thread, but once the fire starts... there will be no putting it out. People's passions for the topic are too high, and probably always will be. When raiders were riding high, people like me were continually told that we should go elsewhere, that we'll ruin MMOs, etc. Hell, that sentiment still shows up regularly - more "angry" than "contemptuous" now.

Soloers aren't any better, of course. I realize that when I say it makes good sense to try to broaden the players who participate in endgame via a mechanic like Epic Battles, raiders are going to hear "so that means no more raids!". That isn't what I mean, just like your intent in that other thread wasn't to tell soloers that they're hermits who don't belong in MMOs.

Khafar

Well I guess you are just allowed to misconstrue every word in the posts.

"The content I was talking about was almost 100% solo. I just found it to be more enjoyable with other players. It saddens me that there are players that feel they should never have to interact with other players"

I found the game more enjoyable with other players. And it does make me sad that we have players on these forums that feel the need to turn every thing I say into a raider vs. soler argument. That somehow we are trying to force them to play with us, which is not the case.

The question asked in this second post I answered was basically that the entire game is becoming a solo adventure.

"If they are, the solo play they offer is quite inferior to other solo RPG's. Games like Dragon's Dogma, Dragons Age, Skyrim, etc. are the leaders in this market."

I was stating a fact that I believed, which is that action rpg solo games offer better gameplay for solo players as it is more diverse. And that playing Lotro solo was less enjoyable than the single player game I mentioned. My implication was that Lotro should offer more of that type of content if they want to attrach players to the game instead of following a WOW format.

Your last comment about how soloers aren't any better not sure what you're trying to say? I agree games have to be more broad to attract more players but this can be done without the removal of key game features.

Not one time in that entire thread did I even attempt to address solo players as the entire thread was about finding a quest buddy. What does that have to do with soloing anything?

I never used the word hermit or implied it. But next time you can PM me and ask me what my posts mean if you don't understand them. Calling me out in a public forum and then using my words out of context to prove some ridiculous point, I believe is against the coc

[Khafar]

Your last comment about how soloers aren't any better not sure what you're trying to say?

That some soloers are making obnoxious comments about raiders similar to ones that some raiders have made about soloers. Neither is helpful, and I've been guilty too on occasion.

Not one time in that entire thread did I even attempt to address solo players as the entire thread was about finding a quest buddy. What does that have to do with soloing anything?

Come on. You know as well as anyone that the OP doesn't get editorial control on a thread. It's going to go where it will, and comments which push the buttons of passionate constituencies are going to help get there.

I have no idea what you "meant". Only what it sounded like when I went back and looked at that thread today - I didn't post in there at all at the time, nor did I even read it. I've had to explain my comments hundreds of times in these forums (see just above)... that's just par for the course on a forum. The only way to avoid that is to stop posting entirely.

Khafar

[Minquinn]

That some soloers are making obnoxious comments about raiders similar to ones that some raiders have made about soloers. Neither is helpful, and I've been guilty too on occasion.

Come on. You know as well as anyone that the OP doesn't get editorial control on a thread. It's going to go where it will, and comments which push the buttons of passionate constituencies are going to help get there.

I have no idea what you "meant". Only what it sounded like when I went back and looked at that thread today - I didn't post in there at all at the time, nor did I even read it. I've had to explain my comments hundreds of times in these forums (see just above)... that's just par for the course on a forum. The only way to avoid that is to stop posting entirely.

Khafar

And i never asked for editorial control. I simply noted the responses I got when player felt the need to push an agenda that wasn't being discussed. Since you have told me in another thread that my opinions make no sense at all why keep responding to me? Since I'm not on your list of posters that make sense.

[Al.]

Min, don't worry to much.

Khafar is usually not very customer friendly, rather the opposite. So defending either Raider or Soloer neither of you should make any ideas is that clear, you are polarized.

I have a middle ground mentality, because Im a genius actually, so here goes my reasoning on Raider vs Solo.
Kinships should be given additional objectives in Raids, Group Instances should be quick with specificed objectives and rewards, solo experience should give rewards of the same quality as raider but that takes repetitive and definete time to get.

Epic Battles should be tailored for both Groups and Kinships, Instance finder should be updated for this task. Solo experience in big battles should be very limited if not non-existant, if Big Battles focus on Soloer it would fail drastically.

[Khafar]

Khafar is usually not very customer friendly, rather the opposite.

Says the guy who called me a "tyrant" and a "bad man". How about you just nix the insults? Thanks.

Khafar

[Al.]

Says the guy who called me a "tyrant" and a "bad man". How about you just nix the insults? Thanks.

Khafar

Hope not offended, its not an insult to say the truth right?

Been not customer friendly, specially F2P people is not an insult its just expressing your position on this Khafar.

[Gottapee]

This entire thread just needs to calm down and

[Thermight]

So since there is no raid coming and you can experience Big Battles from any level, there's no real incentive to get to 95.
There's no real incentive to push to improve your character.
All it will mean is you might get some extra spiffy tokens.



Bring back raids. Bring back a real reason to level and gear up. Not casual activities that are basically rehashed skirmishes with more objectives.