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  1. #1
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    26.04.2009
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    New way to play Hard Mode? Reject LI's?

    Some friends and I are sick of the grind. Sick of working on the perfect weapon. To us it isn't really that fun. We are about to embark on a journey of playing all the content while using only dropped or crafted magical items (non-LI) for some added challenge, and so we don't have to be building LI's all the time. Anyone else tried this?

    Do you think it will add a significant level of challenge to the content of the game?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a010000295b79/signature.png]Hoshmog[/charsig]

  2. #2
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    12.10.2010
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    Hamilton, NY
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    3.699
    It may make it a little harder, but I doubt it'll make it noticeably harder. There's people that actually do this... not frequently, but it happens. That's why you still get random 2H drops from mobs and such, to cater to those players.

    Best weapons tend to come from the chests in GV. If you're VIP or know someone else who is, get a bunch of the Tokens together and pop a bunch of chests.
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  3. #3
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    26.05.2007
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    201
    I really like this idea. The LI system is clever and has a great deal of depth to it, but somewhere along the line it stopped being fun for me too. If it's purpose is to occupy a perfectionist players time after hitting maximum level, then they have certainly accomplished that task. Speaking only for myself, I don't think I got impatient with the grinding I just began to feel that the rewards aren't worth the time invested, usually. I think I would like the carefree approach to playing that you propose.

    On a side note, I would like to see random quality with dropped items. Giving flight to a system that has a mathematical possibility of discovering items that are the most powerful for that level of difficulty, from encounters that aren't always the grand finale. A very slight chance, but the possibility to be surprised with every item drop is IMHO the way to inspire wonderment. Predictability is nice too, but Bilbo did happen upon the One Ring by accident.

    Let's say you kill a level 20 bandit and a sword drops. Have a program randomly roll for each attribute of the weapon. You might get junk, or you might get something that is better than anything that can be crafted at level 20. Like 1 in a thousand.

  4. #4
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    22.08.2012
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    183
    I have, but unfortunately, being a Warden, past level 65 I think it is there's no non-legendary Javelins. I think the same would be for Lore-masters and staffs. No other class uses Javelins/Staffs.
    “I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.” Faramir

  5. #5
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    26.05.2007
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    Zitat Zitat von druidofbreeland Beitrag anzeigen
    I have, but unfortunately, being a Warden, past level 65 I think it is there's no non-legendary Javelins. I think the same would be for Lore-masters and staffs. No other class uses Javelins/Staffs.
    Funny that you mention that, my woodworker would place high end staves and javelins in auction and they would not sell. Eventually selling for a 3rd of what I get for bows.

  6. #6
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    16.01.2007
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    I did this in the RoI beta with my champ. When they let you level to 75 for that beta, there were single use 1H sword recipes that had DPS like a maxed LI (was a bug). I had my Weaponsmith make two of those and played a cuisinart champ for a few days. Was much fun.


    In live, I use 3rd Age LIs. I level 5 characters more or less at the same time and share the loot. I also craft the occasional 3rd Ager to fill in the gaps. Everyone always ends up with decent LIs with a 2-4 legacies that I like. Sometimes I get lucky with a lottery or such and get a Symbol to make someone a 2nd Age LI. Sometimes I get lucky and a random LI ends up with a great set of legacies. I use 2nd or 3rd best relics from my collection, plus cheap crafted ones, and don't worry about removing them.

    The mobs fall like wheat before the scythe without a lot of grinding on my part.
    Cener, Ingo, Rilibald, Hesred, Halras, Loringo
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  7. #7
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    20.07.2012
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    142
    There's a couple of quest reward weapons in Moria that are way more powerful than any of the third age weapons you find and I've used them exclusively so far, through to level 56, with my Champion. Check these stats out:

    Miner's Hammer: 2H 45.5 DPS +56 Might +50 Agility +50 Vitality +88 Power +340 Critical

    That's from the Silvertine Lodes so you can get it soon after entering Moria.

    Wing-clipper: 2H Axe 56.8 DPS +7 Ancient Evil +38 Might +38 Vitality +464 Critical +928 Physical Mastery

    From The Fanged Pit.

    I figure these have been boosted since the Moria revamp. Anyway they are hellaciously powerful weapons and legendaries seem puny in comparison. Of course I still equipped a bunch of LIs just so that the IXP has somewhere to go. I'll be happy to deconstruct them when the time comes though -- I'm not getting too attached to them. Begin with the end in mind, that they have limited usefulness. Still, I like OPs idea of just forgoing them entirely to cut down on the mental overhead. It's not like you need to scratch and claw for every slight advantage in order to succeed in solo questing. Just playing your class well is the main thing.
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  8. #8
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    03.08.2007
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    I would like to hear how it goes, so please report back if you do this.

    Not using LI was certainly viable with Moria release. I expect at some point past 65 it would be a problem. It was a huge jump in LI dps that caused us to junk our first age LI for a 3rd age 70ish and then again at 75. Additionally, you will lose stats from relics and the content seems scaled to an extent to account for LI.

  9. #9
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    25.04.2011
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    2
    I am taking it a step further than just LI's on an alt (Sollo the Introverted Minstrel).

    To see what the game is like playing with just rewards from questing.

    Basically, he is only using money, equipment, and consumables he can earn from quest rewards or buy from vendors with earned money.
    This means no kinship, no auction hall, and I'm even ignoring crafted items (that part may be taking it a bit far but so far sticking to it).

    I will admit, it has been very refreshing playing him in this style. It makes quests challenging, and actually makes those paltry quest rewards most of us just vendor very meaningful and useful. He's not my only toon and I still run with my Kin on my main fully kitted out Mini but this side project is a blast.

    Morggo

  10. #10
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    23.12.2013
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    114
    Hard mode would definitely require a downscaling of gear. One good way to do that would be to restrict yourself to drops only; no crafted items or AH purchases is a fun alternative because it actually speeds up gameplay to a more enjoyable pace.

    I also play without the use of quest helper or the radar, which is as much for immersion as difficulty.

  11. #11
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    02.06.2011
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    Hoarhallow
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    I don't think removing LIs would add significant challenge to the game. Only using frying pans probably would though.
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  12. #12
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    20.09.2010
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    I do not understand what all the fuss is about with leveling legendary items. I have 7 maxed out Second Age LIs for each possible class role on my main. You must not be running enough instances for marks, it generally takes me no more than half an hour to build the perfect legendary item with proper legacies of max tier and rank and the best relics. While it sucks that you have to keep remaking them every time the cap is raised, it still doesn't take very long.

    Zitat Zitat von dwarfThar Beitrag anzeigen
    I don't think removing LIs would add significant challenge to the game. Only using frying pans bably would though.
    I've been soloing lanscape content naked with a Shovel without many issues, and even dual wielded frying pans in the moors. It's an interesting experience.
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  13. #13
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    01.06.2011
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    Zitat Zitat von LunisequiouS Beitrag anzeigen
    I do not understand what all the fuss is about with leveling legendary items. I have 7 maxed out Second Age LIs for each possible class role on my main. You must not be running enough instances for marks, it generally takes me no more than half an hour to build the perfect legendary item with proper legacies of max tier and rank and the best relics.
    No-one in the thread, from OP onwards, is arguing any different. The question was whether it was possible/fun/a way to bring some challenge back to the game, to do without LIs in favour of crafted or world drop items.

    I would use only crafted weapons on my alts if it was possible, but as mentioned above there are no 2H weapons or staff/javelin/spear recipes, sadly.

    I've decided instead that my alts aren't ever going to replace their maxed-out lvl 85 2A LIs. Not ever. They're taking them all the way to Mordor. I have replaced a few legacies with recently added new ones and slotted tier 10 relics. But no more completely new LIs. It's quite liberating actually.
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  14. #14
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    02.06.2011
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    Zitat Zitat von .44 Beitrag anzeigen
    Some friends and I are sick of the grind. Sick of working on the perfect weapon. To us it isn't really that fun. We are about to embark on a journey of playing all the content while using only dropped or crafted magical items (non-LI) for some added challenge, and so we don't have to be building LI's all the time. Anyone else tried this?

    Do you think it will add a significant level of challenge to the content of the game?
    I would say limit yourself to one LI for your alt. For the other items belts ect just use crafted stuff or stuff that drops from mobs or epic quests. Maybe it would make it a little harder but i don't if you would notice any real change.

    I find it annoying that even when you do the epic quests on lvl almost all of the weapons are useless and you have better. If you only had one LI the epic rewards may even be useful.

  15. #15
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    26.05.2010
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    49
    I think I will be doing this. I just got to level 95, and I will likely have to use LI for my guard's belt and 2 handed sword, unless I can find a level 95 2 handed sword.

    The more I think about this, the more appealing it sounds. I will no longer care about level cap increases. It won't mean re-grinding LIs all the time. I will still keep trash LIs slotted for leveling just in case a wonderful legendary weapon falls into my lap, but even then I don't think I will bother trying to grind to upgrade the legacies.

    Turbine really introduced a headache with the LI system.
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  16. #16
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    23.02.2011
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    Argentina
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    Zitat Zitat von Derthir Beitrag anzeigen
    Turbine really introduced a headache with the LI system.
    Lets hope they find a remedy...
    WINDFOLA: Tsuhelm Hunter lv62 LANDROVAL: Tsudryt Captain lv62 LAURELIN: Opopa Burgler lv22 WITHYWINDLE: Tsukuld Rune-keeper lv85

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  17. #17
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    20.10.2010
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    Illinois
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    My mini has a 1st age level 60 sword and book I intend to use 'til max (currently level 70.) I'm curious how well it will manage in the 90's. Don't think it'll make much difference as he is SO op with ranged light damage however.
    Accept that some days you're the pigeon, and some days you're the statue.

  18. #18
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    01.06.2011
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    Zitat Zitat von Rugongrod Beitrag anzeigen
    My mini has a 1st age level 60 sword and book I intend to use 'til max (currently level 70.) I'm curious how well it will manage in the 90's. Don't think it'll make much difference as he is SO op with ranged light damage however.
    Well some of the reason your minstrel is SO op with ranged light damage is because of the sword. A Minstrel legendary sword has a +Tactical Damage Rating, which sole purpose is to increase the damage of your ranged light damage skills.

    That is also some of the problem with ditching LIs for some classes. If I take off the Emblem on my healing specced Captain, his Rallying Cry goes from 1278-1826 to 384-549. A lot of it comes to loss of stats and legacies, but a huge part of it comes from the Tactical Healing Rating found on the emblem. All healing classes are pretty much equally hurt this way, but a DPS minstrel/LM/RK will suffer the very same issue in their DPS because they lose +Tactical Damage Rating while other classes are not hurt in the same degree because they don't have a +Ranged/Melee Damage Rating on their LIs.
    I don't have a lvl 95 RK/LM/Minstrel so I can't show the exact losses by ditching LIs, but I'm certain they'll be a lot more massive than for other classes.

  19. #19
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    05.11.2011
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    Stockholm, Sweden
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    Zitat Zitat von Elrantiri Beitrag anzeigen
    Well some of the reason your minstrel is SO op with ranged light damage is because of the sword. A Minstrel legendary sword has a +Tactical Damage Rating, which sole purpose is to increase the damage of your ranged light damage skills.

    That is also some of the problem with ditching LIs for some classes. If I take off the Emblem on my healing specced Captain, his Rallying Cry goes from 1278-1826 to 384-549. A lot of it comes to loss of stats and legacies, but a huge part of it comes from the Tactical Healing Rating found on the emblem. All healing classes are pretty much equally hurt this way, but a DPS minstrel/LM/RK will suffer the very same issue in their DPS because they lose +Tactical Damage Rating while other classes are not hurt in the same degree because they don't have a +Ranged/Melee Damage Rating on their LIs.
    I don't have a lvl 95 RK/LM/Minstrel so I can't show the exact losses by ditching LIs, but I'm certain they'll be a lot more massive than for other classes.
    Depends on how you compare i guess. If it's just the LI's then ok, but I'm doing a 'full naked' Lotro right now (no gear whatsoever exept the turtoise-stone, including weapons) on a new Mini, and this would hurt a guard, hunter or champ WAY more than a tactical class. I can still dps and heal but a hunter without a bow is pretty lousy (Btw: it works disturbingly well...)

    Regards
    /T
    Dawarad HNT | Dawadan MIN | Dawfast CMP | Dawaran CPT | Dawmur GRD | Dawared WRD | Dawagrim RK | Dawaras LM | Daweric BRG | Dawagar MIN | Dawarar CMP | Dawnakh WRG | Dawbag BA | Dawgil WVR | Dawglob WL |

  20. #20
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    26.05.2007
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    261
    Build and gear make the game 'easy'.
    Physical mastery I think caps off at 50% but getting that to 50% from the might and direct bonus is hard to avoid. Once you start to see where your glass ceiling is and you begin to make builds that max multiple aspects, Mastery max, crit magnitude max, crit chance max. Dropping your Leg is just the beginning. You need to rebuild and avoid those 50% buff systems too. It's why I buffer tank. I expect to have a 30K Morale captain at 95 but I will have very little hitting power compared to others and I will see damage. Even now at 82 and 13.5K Morale I can get knocked down to 3K before I dispatch 4 or 5 enemies. I know it's optic but if I have a wandering NPC role in and stun or disarm me there is a risk I will be defeated.

    It does mean I'm not uber but I never was so I'm used to it.

  21. #21
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    26.05.2007
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    Zitat Zitat von YamydeAragon Beitrag anzeigen
    I have seen people (more commonly called leroy hunters) that manage to die every 5 seconds while dress in gold. Gear is nothing without brains.
    But for the average person who doesn't feel that rush anymore, the easiest way to self gimp is through gear and knowing where the stat factor that gear plays, is at work.

    I throttle my own dps through my build but it gives me staying power. Also, I am wrong on the 50% because my mitigation is at 51% right now. If that's the case for mastery and crit chance/ magnitude, I have no idea what our gear caps are at.

 

 

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