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Thema: Balance...

  1. #26
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    Zitat Zitat von spelunker Beitrag anzeigen
    Added some emphasis.

    I like you much better when you post seriously instead of trolling. Keep up the good work, this is a great quote.
    I try to keep all my fans happy, I get a little of everything in my replies. Particularly in PvP related discussions Im still baffled by the attempts to make it something its not. "balance" and the creep tears over freep OP, its like one could close their eyes for a few years look at the PvP forums and not skip a beat. Its almost as if people believe this is a serious attempt at PvP at all... I mean necklaces are getting KB's, keeps auto flip, and creeps and freeps have little to nothing of substance to use the in game currency on after getting their audacity. Yet we still get this nonsense, now I get it I was a purveyor of this for sometime, im not better then anyone else here. However my IQ is above the forest gump level and I was able to figure out that its a nice add on for level cap players, its not a focus point of development or (IMHO) coherent thought out long term viability of the PvP. Its really kind of band aided together at the end after the PvE is refined. Its hard to keep replying to these redundant topics seriously, it requires effort and to be blunt I prefer the vitriolic pissing matches where everyone was working on their "gotcha" one liners. To bad those days are a thing of the past, apathy has taken hold....

  2. #27
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    The best way to win fights these days seems to just heal ball everything. It's frustrating. But whatever, I'm just gonna knock back a few beers and get some popcorn while this thread grows.

    Ah dammit, I might as well say something. I for one think a huge problem freepside is that there are barely any Cappies/Champs in the moors. I often see whole raids of minis/rks/hunters which are all insanely squishy. Champ aoes into those heal balls of defilers and cappies for Bubbles/OBs would definitely help. If there were more of them on my server, pvp sure would be a lot nicer/fairer?/more enjoyable lol. Also, someone mentioned earlier a lot of freeps have a tendency to not want to die because they don't wipe/die a lot (if at all) given the easiness of today's end-game content - which is honestly probably true. I have no problem dying, or running in again (had this account since '07)- it sure would be nice if people followed and we actually all followed the same target and got a kill. Ofc, with like 5 rows of HoTs - that's pretty much impossible...

    but anyway, back to beer and popcorn.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0820700000005af46/01001/signature.png]Beerdrinker[/charsig]

  3. #28
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    19.05.2008
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    Like Nouri, I play on both freep and creepside. Something that also lends itself to an imbalance is that a green freep can go into the moors missing simply Audacity and a little know how. A green creep has only a small handful of skills and no ability to move around the map without running the gauntlet. Add to that the fact that established groups of creeps are reluctant to group with greenies because without the maps they cant keep up with the raid. This creates an atmosphere that isn't friendly to bringing new players to creepside. That said, a full raid of ranked creeps is extremely formidable.

    To the original author's point the warden bleeds coupled with their durability is extremely unbalanced. I have seen half a dozen creeps unable to bring down a single warden. That is simply unacceptable.

  4. #29
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    Zitat Zitat von Adoraith Beitrag anzeigen
    Something that also lends itself to an imbalance is that a green freep can go into the moors missing simply Audacity and a little know how. A green creep has only a small handful of skills and no ability to move around the map without running the gauntlet. Add to that the fact that established groups of creeps are reluctant to group with greenies because without the maps they cant keep up with the raid. This creates an atmosphere that isn't friendly to bringing new players to creepside. That said, a full raid of ranked creeps is extremely formidable.

    To the original author's point the warden bleeds coupled with their durability is extremely unbalanced. I have seen half a dozen creeps unable to bring down a single warden. That is simply unacceptable.
    So lets get to the real heart of the matter, you know that one issue some bring up over and over, balance. Please define balance in the context of the moors. Should creeps have more morale to offset the bleeds and durability? (maybe 35k-40K) higher DPS? if yes, will the other freep classes who don't have the wardens bleeds and durability be compensated with higher survivability? The reality is freep toons are made primarily for PVE, creeps are exclusive to PvP. Its one of the few things in the moors turbine has gotten right, creep toons compliment one another in a group setting. The problem is your then competing with freep toons who can solo multiple PvE moobs of 100k. Yet, given that reality we continue to get references to balance. It dosent take a lot of effort to point out the issues, whats the solution here? What is balance and how is it achieved. Years have past, same conversation different day. Think balance might not be in the cards? You'd be right IMHO, so youre going to have to adapt. Ive seen plenty of creeps adapt and do just fine. We can ask for "balance" for another 2-3 years if you all like, that's cool. Unless you offer a coherent and unified definition of what balance is its not coming, so in lue of that you adapt. You zerg wardens, it isn't pretty not challenging or fun but at this point most people in the moors (both sides) know the score. They know balance is an illusion and "unacceptable" is only enforceable by choosing not to play, turbine isn't riding in on a white horse to make the moors better its just not happening.

  5. #30
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    A few postings back, I asserted that freeps are definitely OP while solo or in small groups. However, I also stated that creeps can be very effective in RvR fights, and that if creeps wanted to be competitive in solo or small group fights, they'd likely have to give up some things that make them so effective in larger groups. It sounds like the previous poster even agrees with me here, at least to some extent, when he states "Its one of the few things in the moors turbine has gotten right, creep toons compliment one another in a group setting."

    I'd be all for creeps getting buffs and skills that would enable them to be more competitive in solo or small group fights. Also, give creeps all or most of their skills at r0 and make the March skill comparable to freep mounted movement capabilities. This would make it a lot easier for green creeps to get into raids and to survive. At the same time, I think that creeps would have to give up some of the things that make them so effective in larger fights. Maps are a good example. If a group of freeps tries to take a Keep, all it takes is one call out by a creep, and any creeps with a half-way decent assortment of maps can be there within a minute or two, and the map-in bombing starts. WL banners and in-combat AoE reses are other good examples. When I step into the area of a single terror banner, my DPS drops by over seventeen percent. Would anyone care to offer an example of another debuff in the game that can effect an entire raid as much as that, and that has as much coverage area? Start stacking those WL banners, and the freep raid starts fighting on its heels trying to get away from them unless they're willing to let their effectiveness be completely nerfed. As for WL in-combat AoE resing, yes, minis have a much shorter CD 'non-combat' AoE res if they can drop combat and get a 5+ second induction skill off with a fight going on around them. How about giving WLs and minis similar res capabilities?
    Geändert von Nouri (25.08.2013 um 15:11 Uhr)

  6. #31
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    Zitat Zitat von Nouri Beitrag anzeigen
    A few postings back, I asserted that freeps are definitely OP while solo or in small groups. However, I also stated that creeps can be very effective in RvR fights, and that if creeps wanted to be competitive in solo or small group fights, they'd likely have to give up some things that make them so effective in larger groups. It sounds like the previous poster even agrees with me here, at least to some extent, when he states "Its one of the few things in the moors turbine has gotten right, creep toons compliment one another in a group setting."

    I'd be all for creeps getting buffs and skills that would enable them to be more competitive in solo or small group fights. Also, give creeps all or most of their skills at r0 and make the March skill comparable to freep mounted movement capabilities. This would make it a lot easier for green creeps to get into raids and to survive. At the same time, I think that creeps would have to give up some of the things that make them so effective in larger fights. Maps are a good example. If a group of freeps tries to take a Keep, all it takes is one call out by a creep, and any creeps with a half-way decent assortment of maps can be there within a minute or two, and the map-in bomb starts. WL banners and in-combat AoE reses are other good examples. When I step into the area of a single terror banner, my DPS drops by over seventeen percent. Would anyone care to offer an example of another debuff in the game that can effect an entire raid as much as that, and that has as much coverage area? Start stacking those WL banners, and the freep raid starts fighting on its heels trying to get away from them unless they're willing to let their effectiveness be completely nerfed. As for WL in-combat AoE resing, yes, minis have a much shorter CD 'non-combat' AoE res if they can drop combat and get a 5+ second induction skill off with a fight going on around them. How about giving WLs and minis similar res capabilities?
    The problem here is your rational is what seems to be a well intended QQ about current creep skills. You spent a good portion of your post discussing nerfs to WL's (I liked the stacking banner part the most, please elaborate on that specifically....) Essentially you didn't progress the discussion, you went back to the same vein of conversation you did "a few postings back". So if we take you at face value, are you saying "balance" would be achieved (or closer to achieved) by eliminating creep maps, nerfing WL rezzes, and the elimination of banners? The most horrific part of your post is, you aren't trolling you really seem to believe this. Its like I said "a few postings back" there are some freeps who cannot rationalize how they are dying over and over in the moors. You'll often find they cant conclude its their choice of playstyle or group dynamic, that never enters the realm of possibility for them. Its often the conclusion creeps are OP and again, these are the freeps we have to worry about the most.
    Geändert von Thorgrum (25.08.2013 um 15:20 Uhr)

  7. #32
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    Zitat Zitat von Thorgrum Beitrag anzeigen
    The problem here is your rational is what seems to be a well intended QQ about current creep skills. You spent a good portion of your post discussing nerfs to WL's (I liked the stacking banner part the most, please elaborate on that specifically....) Essentially you didn't progress the discussion, you went back to the same vein of conversation you did "a few postings back". So if we take you at face value, are you saying "balance" would be achieved (or closer to achieved) by eliminating creep maps, nerfing WL rezzes, and the elimination of banners? The most horrific part of your post is, you aren't trolling you really seem to believe this. Its like I said "a few postings back" there are some freeps who cannot rationalize how they are dying over and over in the moors. You'll often find they cant conclude its their choice of playstyle or group dynamic, that never enters the realm of possibility for them. Its often the conclusion creeps are OP and again, these are the freeps we have to worry about the most.
    Hmmmm, this is quite the example of a person with creep goggles reading only what they want to read. Did you even bother to read the part about "I'd be all for creeps getting buffs and skills that would enable them to be more competitive in solo or small group fights. Also, give creeps all or most of their skills at r0 and make the March skill comparable to freep mounted movement capabilities. This would make it a lot easier for green creeps to get into raids and to survive."?!?!?! I guess not. Try reading the posting in full next time.

  8. #33
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    How about a compromise on the WL nerf. Reduce the max rez targets and increase the CD of the skill but greatly increase the healing out-put to match that of a minstrel?

  9. #34
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    Here's a thought. I've never known the over the top OP god mode that some freeps walk around with because I've never had any interest in mindlessly grinding instances and dailies to get the best uber-gear. When I look at other peoples stats, the really over the top ones typical have 1000 higher will, agility, etc., than my toons. This isn't a complaint, it's just the way it is. I certainly see the OPness when I play against these people on my creeps. But if and when there is a balance shift, people like me will go back to being cr@p.

    My point is, I would bet that the developers making decisions on balance don't grind the best gear either meaning they see the balance issues from a very skewed perspective when they go out into the wild to test things. I'm probably wrong, just one theory to consider.

    Oh and BTW, none of this matters. I've said it a thousand times: tactics trump all. 99% of the freeps and creeps on our server never leave one-shots or back doors until they have better numbers than the other side anyway, so what difference does balancing the game make? Those people will still play like that if the devs make all of the classes exact mirrors of one another.

  10. #35
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    01.06.2011
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    My Home is the Moors, roaming around .....
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    Zitat Zitat von Bonescraper79 Beitrag anzeigen
    um...what? lol no, though that would be nice wouldn't it!



    hunters have a far larger tracking range, can even track stealthed wargs and can track ON horseback, this is 0 excuse for losing the element of surprise. You need to smack the lazy hunters around and get them to do what their class was partly intended to do, TRACK FOE, TRACK NATURE. You die ONE time, if you don't get rezzed you can map back after that its get your jogging shoes on, tough on newer people since they can literally be 2shot by many of the freep classes out there, audacity or not.



    even with long strides and sprint you cannot catch a mounted freep unless you were right on top of them when they started to ride off. If you are scouting a raid long strides will not let you even get close enough to see where a mounted freep raid went.

    Creep AOE effects and Bleeds are less than half what freeps can dish out, especially CC wise.



    Many creeps have spent years getting their character up in rank (do to changing infamy gains) So following your logic a high ranked creep that spent months/years getting there should be 2 shot by a lucky dev crit from a rank 2 RK or hunter? Either that or let a freep at level 10 go to the moors? Just because you start at level 85 on a creep means 0 you are about as effective as a lvl 40 freep would be.

    New players got the nickname Greenie for a reason, for those who might recall why
    Have to agree with all your answers here

    In regards, maps - the cd's should be hugely reduced to allow more freedom around the map for creeps seing as horses are practically instant and always available to freeps to move around on.

    Warg long strides should be faster or at same speed as the horses so that we can keep pace too.

    I've said it before and i'll say it again - I dont hold much hope for 'balance' ever happening in the Moors nor do I expect anything good to come out from the freep class changes when it arrives into the Moors, nor do I hold a cat-in-hells chance of creeps gettign anything of worthwile note in an update several long months after Helms Deep has been released either.

  11. #36
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    Same thread... different year! The dev's don't seem to focus as much on the creepside. A great example of the ongoing imbalance is what has happened to once a great and fun PvP server to play on, Elendilmir!
    I now occasionally log on to see if the latest updates have changed anything, but what has happened for the most part.... PvP is DEAD! After logging on and off for the past week, there is the occasional 1v1, maybe there is a group of 3 or 4 freeps and several creeps trying to take them down, but one thing they do is go up to the flag room in a creep controlled keep and farm.

    Anyway, I do hope something happens to balance it out and hopefully life will return to the Moors on Elendilmir.

  12. #37
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    I'll keep saying it, I dunno why cause ya'll won't like to hear yet, preferring to cry instead but..

    We want balance, then you have to remove our numbers advantage. No more maps. No more in combat AOE rezzes.

    Get rid of our numbers advantage, then we can be balanced up to on par. The nerfing we took with update 10 was due to the fact that in update 9 when we were more equally balanced, we still used our numbers advantage too. Not helping the fact was our numbers were inflated due to ezmode flipper trash, but I digress. Spread the creeps out and then yes by all means they need to be buffed up.
    Geändert von ColorSpecs (26.08.2013 um 14:34 Uhr)

  13. #38
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    Zitat Zitat von Stepbrother Beitrag anzeigen
    Here's a thought. I've never known the over the top OP god mode that some freeps walk around with because I've never had any interest in mindlessly grinding instances and dailies to get the best uber-gear. When I look at other peoples stats, the really over the top ones typical have 1000 higher will, agility, etc., than my toons. This isn't a complaint, it's just the way it is. I certainly see the OPness when I play against these people on my creeps. But if and when there is a balance shift, people like me will go back to being cr@p.

    My point is, I would bet that the developers making decisions on balance don't grind the best gear either meaning they see the balance issues from a very skewed perspective when they go out into the wild to test things. I'm probably wrong, just one theory to consider.

    Oh and BTW, none of this matters. I've said it a thousand times: tactics trump all. 99% of the freeps and creeps on our server never leave one-shots or back doors until they have better numbers than the other side anyway, so what difference does balancing the game make? Those people will still play like that if the devs make all of the classes exact mirrors of one another.
    I have to agree at least partly with Milty here, /faint. For RoR at least, i think they did a halfway decent job balancing things off of what was top of the line freep gear to start the xpac, but haven't touched creepside since, resulting in the #### we have now. IMO the Devs did balance things based off the best gear, they just didn't change this when the best gear got dramatically better in U10 and U11 (nevermind BFPs). BTW Milty, I'm not sure you know this, but instance loot isn't bind on acquire anymore. You can likely buy jewelry off the AH for 500s-10g that would be MUCH better than the types of items you were using in RoI, and i'd assume even without leaving the moors you can scrape together 50-100g through selling vendor trash from npc/creep corpses consistently.
    Zitat Zitat von BiteMarks Beitrag anzeigen
    Have to agree with all your answers here

    In regards, maps - the cd's should be hugely reduced to allow more freedom around the map for creeps seing as horses are practically instant and always available to freeps to move around on.

    Warg long strides should be faster or at same speed as the horses so that we can keep pace too.

    I've said it before and i'll say it again - I dont hold much hope for 'balance' ever happening in the Moors nor do I expect anything good to come out from the freep class changes when it arrives into the Moors, nor do I hold a cat-in-hells chance of creeps gettign anything of worthwile note in an update several long months after Helms Deep has been released either.
    Reduce map cooldowns, Dramatically? And a stealthy class faster than the fastest way freeps can travel? About the only advantage creeps currently have over freeps is map movement, making this disparity even greater is a terrible idea, imo. Creeps need to better be able to handle freeps when they find them, not be better at getting more creeps to help when they find them.
    Zitat Zitat von barbaro Beitrag anzeigen
    Same thread... different year! The dev's don't seem to focus as much on the creepside. A great example of the ongoing imbalance is what has happened to once a great and fun PvP server to play on, Elendilmir!
    I now occasionally log on to see if the latest updates have changed anything, but what has happened for the most part.... PvP is DEAD! After logging on and off for the past week, there is the occasional 1v1, maybe there is a group of 3 or 4 freeps and several creeps trying to take them down, but one thing they do is go up to the flag room in a creep controlled keep and farm.

    Anyway, I do hope something happens to balance it out and hopefully life will return to the Moors on Elendilmir.
    The decrease in numbers on E has far more to do with the loss/inactivity of raid leaders than the imbalance. If Griz/Ohgee or Vyze came back, or Yicky started actively playing again, or a new regular creepside leader stepped up, things would turn around very quickly. People like Sniz are great, don't get me wrong, but they only lead once or twice a week, and many E creeps (I'm doing my best to not call them raid-babies) are looking for a situation where they know they can log in and find an open raid to join. More than anything else, these creeps are the ones missing from the Moors on E, and why freep/creeps and the 3/6-man style creeps are making up the bulk of E's creeps now.

    Zitat Zitat von ColorSpecs Beitrag anzeigen
    I'll keep saying it, I dunno why cause ya'll won't like to hear yet, preferring to cry instead but..

    We want balance, then you have to remove our numbers advantage. No more maps. No more in combat AOE rezzes.

    Get rid of our numbers advantage, then we can be balanced up to on par. The nerfing we took with update 11 was due to the fact that in update 10 when we were more equally balanced, we still used our numbers advantage too. Not helping the fact was our numbers were inflated due to ezmode flipper trash, but I digress. Spread the creeps out and then yes by all means they need to be buffed up.
    You mean U9 and U10, but otherwise good points.

  14. #39
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    Zitat Zitat von spelunker Beitrag anzeigen
    You mean U9 and U10, but otherwise good points.
    I did. Fixed, Ty.

  15. #40
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    Zitat Zitat von spelunker Beitrag anzeigen

    The decrease in numbers on E has far more to do with the loss/inactivity of raid leaders than the imbalance. If Griz/Ohgee or Vyze came back, or Yicky started actively playing again, or a new regular creepside leader stepped up, things would turn around very quickly. People like Sniz are great, don't get me wrong, but they only lead once or twice a week, and many E creeps (I'm doing my best to not call them raid-babies) are looking for a situation where they know they can log in and find an open raid to join. More than anything else, these creeps are the ones missing from the Moors on E, and why freep/creeps and the 3/6-man style creeps are making up the bulk of E's creeps now.
    So, as one who doesn't have to have to be in a Raid and run's Solo quite a bit, what American server do you recommend transferring too that is very active? Vyxe isn't coming back as well as other leaders of BAOS (Black Appendage of Sauron). Many of them have left to go to other games (the Tribe I've been in for several years). Also, others from formerly active tribes, B-Team ROFLCopters to name one, have left as well.

    I did create a creep on a German server to see how it was... .WoW! It's very active throughout the day.

  16. #41
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    Zitat Zitat von spelunker Beitrag anzeigen
    BTW Milty, I'm not sure you know this, but instance loot isn't bind on acquire anymore. You can likely buy jewelry off the AH for 500s-10g that would be MUCH better than the types of items you were using in RoI, and i'd assume even without leaving the moors you can scrape together 50-100g through selling vendor trash from npc/creep corpses consistently.
    I check the AH out of boredom once in a while. The only jewelry I ever see that would be an upgrade typically starts at 50G per piece and the gold items 500G per piece. Then there's the first age LIs I'll never have. None of this is ever going to matter enough to me to bother obtaining. Being good at a video game will never be something I strive for no matter how many people tell me I suck. I enjoy killing the other 95% of players that thought they had some sort of chance because they bought into the myth

  17. #42
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    Zitat Zitat von ColorSpecs Beitrag anzeigen
    I'll keep saying it, I dunno why cause ya'll won't like to hear yet, preferring to cry instead but..
    Because people don't realise balance cannot be achieved in an mmo's pvp

    Zitat Zitat von ColorSpecs Beitrag anzeigen
    We want balance, then you have to remove our numbers advantage. No more maps. No more in combat AOE rezzes.
    Make sure freeps lose mounts and mass out of combat AoE rezzes too then and give freeps in combat rezzes.

    Zitat Zitat von ColorSpecs Beitrag anzeigen
    Get rid of our numbers advantage, then we can be balanced up to on par. The nerfing we took with update 10 was due to the fact that in update 9 when we were more equally balanced, we still used our numbers advantage too. Not helping the fact was our numbers were inflated due to ezmode flipper trash, but I digress. Spread the creeps out and then yes by all means they need to be buffed up.
    Please stop posting on behalf of creeps when you are a hardcore freep, it's embarrassing.

  18. #43
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    So, as one who doesn't have to have to be in a Raid and run's Solo quite a bit, what American server do you recommend transferring too that is very active? Vyxe isn't coming back as well as other leaders of BAOS (Black Appendage of Sauron). Many of them have left to go to other games (the Tribe I've been in for several years). Also, others from formerly active tribes, B-Team ROFLCopters to name one, have left as well.

    I did create a creep on a German server to see how it was... .WoW! It's very active throughout the day.
    I am definitely not a vet on E, but my understanding is that Bteam has only been about 6 strong for quite some time, and I see most of those people fairly regularly still. I'm about as Anti-raid as you can get, but it is unfortunate that those leaders have left, and many creeps have become extremely 'part-time' since then. A full raid meant Gold-taggers who weren't getting heals or rezzes or mapping in coordination that I could pick off in 1s and 2s and 3s while they tried to stick with the raid when it mapped, or made a push somewhere. It also meant creeps ranked faster, so I'd see more r7-r8s with full aud collecting wood while I roamed that I could go after (I generally won't touch a r5 or lower creep unless they're grouped up). Its nice to not have to give GTA and GTR a wide berth given the possibility of 20+ mapping in in a heartbeat, but I'd rather deal with those negatives as they come with many positives.

    All I can say about other servers is stay away from Nimrodel

    Zitat Zitat von Stepbrother Beitrag anzeigen
    I check the AH out of boredom once in a while. The only jewelry I ever see that would be an upgrade typically starts at 50G per piece and the gold items 500G per piece. Then there's the first age LIs I'll never have. None of this is ever going to matter enough to me to bother obtaining. Being good at a video game will never be something I strive for no matter how many people tell me I suck. I enjoy killing the other 95% of players that thought they had some sort of chance because they bought into the myth
    Yeah, when i wrote that I was thinking about Es auction hall and in retrospect, the few times I've popped onto Nim in RoR the difference in whats posted and their prices are staggering.

  19. #44
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    Zitat Zitat von Nouri Beitrag anzeigen
    Hmmmm, this is quite the example of a person with creep goggles reading only what they want to read. Did you even bother to read the part about "I'd be all for creeps getting buffs and skills that would enable them to be more competitive in solo or small group fights. Also, give creeps all or most of their skills at r0 and make the March skill comparable to freep mounted movement capabilities. This would make it a lot easier for green creeps to get into raids and to survive."?!?!?! I guess not. Try reading the posting in full next time.
    Of course I read everything completely, I play both sides on different servers. Regardless of your attempt to portray my reply as a "didn't you bother to read it" meme, it dosent negate what you stated. It also dosent negate you haven't prepared a rebuttal for the questions I asked. The answer to balance is not nerfs to WL's. Nerfs are bad for everyone, essentially you want to take away something to create "balance" as you deem it. That's a dangerous mindset to have IMHO but you've established clearly that's where you stand, fine. Balance in lotro, at this stage is predicated mostly on numbers. Its always been a zerg, but turbine has created the conditions by which any idiot can sit in GV/grams get in a raid and get points while doing nothing. You get buffs for controlling the map points its domination and that's what they want. Its more a statement of how clueless they are about what players want, but that's a side discussion. Most of the creep players I know want a good fight and have no problem dying. Freeps not so much, its my experience they like things easy (this WL banners have a big square for their AOE btw, just move out of it) turbine has spoon fed them content, its trickling into the moors. The answer isn't nerfs CAS the answer is accepting the reality that the entity in control isn't in it to create a great PvP environment, so your going to have to embrace what you have and adapt. Im going to give you a piece of advice, no troll, no vitriol. Stop leading raids, and resign as the moors commander of your kin. Youll have a lot more fun and yours moors experience will be far more rewarding. See you out there, youre going to die.

  20. #45
    Registriert seit
    07.11.2007
    Ort
    USA
    Beiträge
    8.222
    Zitat Zitat von Stepbrother Beitrag anzeigen
    Being good at a video game will never be something I strive for no matter how many people tell me I suck.
    considering the amount of store trackers and run speed buffs i see you with, that's entirely believable.

  21. #46
    Registriert seit
    23.12.2008
    Beiträge
    1.185
    Zitat Zitat von Thorgrum Beitrag anzeigen
    Of course I read everything completely, I play both sides on different servers. Regardless of your attempt to portray my reply as a "didn't you bother to read it" meme, it dosent negate what you stated. It also dosent negate you haven't prepared a rebuttal for the questions I asked. The answer to balance is not nerfs to WL's. Nerfs are bad for everyone, essentially you want to take away something to create "balance" as you deem it. That's a dangerous mindset to have IMHO but you've established clearly that's where you stand, fine. Balance in lotro, at this stage is predicated mostly on numbers. Its always been a zerg, but turbine has created the conditions by which any idiot can sit in GV/grams get in a raid and get points while doing nothing. You get buffs for controlling the map points its domination and that's what they want. Its more a statement of how clueless they are about what players want, but that's a side discussion. Most of the creep players I know want a good fight and have no problem dying. Freeps not so much, its my experience they like things easy (this WL banners have a big square for their AOE btw, just move out of it) turbine has spoon fed them content, its trickling into the moors. The answer isn't nerfs CAS the answer is accepting the reality that the entity in control isn't in it to create a great PvP environment, so your going to have to embrace what you have and adapt. Im going to give you a piece of advice, no troll, no vitriol. Stop leading raids, and resign as the moors commander of your kin. Youll have a lot more fun and yours moors experience will be far more rewarding. See you out there, youre going to die.
    I play both sides. The kinship I’m in has its own tribe, and I group with several other tribes on Ark as well. Why? Because I like something close to balance. I’m not into the total domination thing. If I see a particular side getting crushed, I’ll typically switch to that side, and so will many of my kinmates. I like it best when the fights are competitive and both sides are getting points.

    In suggesting the changes I did, I attempted to balance the suggested nerfs to maps, WL banners and reses with buffs to creeps that would make them more competitive when playing solo or in small groups. I think there would be a lot of creeps out there that would like to be able to solo, and stand a fair chance against a solo freep. A couple of other posters on this thread made excellent points….. “We want balance, then you have to remove our numbers advantage. No more maps. No more in combat AOE rezzes.” “Creeps need to better be able to handle freeps when they find them, not be better at getting more creeps to help when they find them.”

    As for the WL banner thing, I don’t play a WL, but I checked with a couple of friends who do. I was told they do not stack, so I was mistaken…. It’s not the first time

    As far as liking things easy and being afraid of dying, I know creeps that play that way and I know freeps that play that way. When I got to rank 8, I started messaging creeps on Ark that I thought were the very best players in their respective classes, and asking if they’d mind sparring. I got my butt kicked a zillion times, but I figured that if I wanted to be able to compete with the best, zerging greenies was not the way to go about it. I don’t mind dying at all, it’s part of what makes the game challenging and interesting. It happens quite a lot actually. I solo most of the time, and get nailed by creep groups quite regularly. Win or lose, it’s still a game I love.

  22. #47
    Registriert seit
    03.06.2011
    Beiträge
    3.950
    On topic:
    A good creep will beat an average creep. An unskilled P2W Reaver can, also. A good freep will obliterate an average creep. But since not all players are good, by far, most fights result in a pretty equal match. This only is for r8+, though. Can't comment on raids.

  23. #48
    Registriert seit
    03.06.2011
    Ort
    England. north-west
    Beiträge
    2.685
    Zitat Zitat von DaMac Beitrag anzeigen
    How about a compromise on the WL nerf. Reduce the max rez targets and increase the CD of the skill but greatly increase the healing out-put to match that of a minstrel?
    I personnally would rather see freep classes have a healing nurf.

    if creep healing (defiler/wl) were as high as captains/minstrels/rk the already natural stacking of 2+ healers per group on creeps side would get insanely OP.

    I would rather see less emphasis on stacking heals than making sure other forms of survivability is in check. I also hate times in raids when both raids seem to have stacked heals and dps well, that there in some derpy time where no one can out dps the crazy heals going around... and thats without a WL buff to healing.

    there is something naturally wrong with WL rez. it's kinda setting up freeps to almost always earn more renown than creeps can earn infarmy.

    I rather like the form of a healer who hangs in the back. squishy, overhealing (bubbles I guess on lotro) healers who people run back to for a top up. also, in-combat rezzes are good for PvP. something warhammer did really well was attacking a keep, not just healing the people in front, but rezzing those who didn't get heals to play smarter in there next life without a huge run back to the action. it lets fights go on longer without having no one dieing and almost being at a stale mate. it puts healers in a awkward moment too, am I safe to heal, or rez? if your just standing there rezzing, the dps on the other side will no doubt be killing people quicker than you can bring them up. if your only healing, you'll eventually run out of people.

    seems like lotro really isn't working other survival mechanisms too. there are self healing classes, running away classs and lesser ones that arn't quite working. +50% avoidence for example, finesse really broken that. and with 1/2 the creep/freep classes able to do tactical, surely there should be people who should be able to do +50% resistence? makes sense no? other things like mitigating just to melee, ranged or tactical or even just spacific damage types. it's nice to see more reflect lately on spider mainly, but why not heal on hit like some mobs in moria had? or buff on hit, or some more serious debuff turtle classes. I also hate how stuns have ALWAYS been tied next to stuns, there not the same, you can still do skills and avoidence rooted, so why are they tied together so much? and again, why is there no overhealing in the game? ok hots are kinda but why not let defiler pop a 1.4k bubble every 15s that lasts 1min? something more pre-emtive healing and over-heal people to you can make sure "that guys will be target first, I best keep him up!"

    there are other forms too they seem to have ignored. maybe we'll see them better with class revamps
    Geändert von bohbashum (28.08.2013 um 03:45 Uhr)

  24. #49
    Registriert seit
    23.08.2013
    Beiträge
    36
    Unless creeps are built the exact same way as freeps and have the exact same population, there will never be true balance.

  25. #50
    Registriert seit
    03.06.2011
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    England. north-west
    Beiträge
    2.685
    Zitat Zitat von Bee9 Beitrag anzeigen
    Unless creeps are built the exact same way as freeps and have the exact same population, there will never be true balance.
    mirroring classes isn't as fun at times. and you still have imbalance.

    infact... I'll explain it really badly.

    watch



    the big thing about this is there needs to be a tactics/class to beat everything. currently, many classes (we all know who they are) are just so good and need to be zerged to beat. and thats just unfair -_-

 

 
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