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  1. #276
    Registriert seit
    24.02.2008
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    717
    Kelsan's last post on this thread was 3 months ago. So what about it? Anything new to add about Hunter revamp?
    “The world is indeed full of peril and in it there are many dark places.”
    ? J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

  2. #277
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    24.11.2007
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    1.088
    I'm not sure if these have already been suggested, apologies if so.

    *Remove the CD on Agile Rejoinder so that it is like the LM's Improved Wizard's Fire ability where the pet flanks and a heal results.
    *Give the Hunter's Fire skill ICMR/PR in addition to out-of-combat regen.

    Clearly these would need to be carefully balanced, but as it stands now hunters have no real heals, and diminished DPS since the changes to Fate and Agi. I also play a DPS-traited LM.... that character rivals (and sometimes exceeds) my hunter's damage and she is far less squishy.
    There is something very wrong with this picture.
    .......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain.

  3. #278
    Registriert seit
    27.01.2010
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    208
    I officially give up on class changes, even something as simple as induction-less press onward has been ignored for a long time. The hunter dev has been afk for 3 months. Hunters haven't gotten helpful changes in what seems years now. I give in, hunters will never get changes, YOU WIN DEVS!
    The end of an age has come and the wheel of time turns on. We will meet again when the wheel allows it.

  4. #279
    Registriert seit
    01.06.2011
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    1.876
    I've been playing Dragon Age 2 a lot recently and one of the things I liked was the flexibility of the skill-tree approach. I can now see how (and here's the caveat kicker) a very well thought out and throughly tested and tweaked series of trees could work.

    I particularly liked that you could make very distinct but all equally useful variants of the same class by your skill point allocation policy. Going all in on a couple of the specialist trees or going full into one and deep enough into others to take an interesting selection of skills to fully upgraded instead was a nice gameplay option.

    I hope Turbine are looking at good examples and I strongly hope there is cost-free in real money terms retraiting. Unlike Neverwinter where you allocate points to trees without any real idea what the effect will be and then have to pay real money to respec if you get it wrong. If they turn this tree approach into a TP-Store grab I'll be sorely disappointed.

    I just wish they'd discuss stuff with us. I don't think they can afford this revamp to be another of their 'throw something together that barely even looks good on paper and then spend the next 18 months putting it right' shambles.

    Sadly we can all reel off a yard of examples of 'What on earth were you thinking?' that were not only defended to the hilt but when fixed sold back to us as 'Improved' as a new skill upgrade.

    I still have no idea at all how anyone involved in development could have thought the original Split Shot and Hunters Art anything but risible.

  5. #280
    Registriert seit
    16.09.2010
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    37
    I have another idea for a cool mechanic for the game.

    Let hunters tracking skill have a choice to either display npc monsters attack/aggro radius or player monsters los and/or attack radius.

    Currently, the tracking skills bring up a list of mobs in the area, but towards the end you could add the two buttons "Aggro, Attack Radius." (Who knows how much programming that would take, but it would add an interesting dynamic to the whole game [I'm getting excited about awesome instances where this would be used] also [A solo player could dodge mobs while in a camp])

    Now putting the amount of work it would take to implement, there could be a trait added to the yellow line (or tree depending if the trait trees will be out by then) that enables the whole fellowship to see the markings.

    Missxu
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/02204000000179c3d/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  6. #281
    Registriert seit
    16.06.2007
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    1.027
    Zitat Zitat von Kongas Beitrag anzeigen
    ....

    I still have no idea at all how anyone involved in development could have thought the original Split Shot and Hunters Art anything but risible.
    This is a good example of how different players play the class differently. For me, Split Shot and Hunters Art are two absolutely essential skills. First off, let me explain that I trait for aoe dps and use LI aoe dps legacies.

    I've done extensive dps testing parses using Combat Analysis and have some to a remarkable conclusion: there is no decrease in aoe dps for my hunter when I interrupt a crit chain of Rain of Arrows with a Split Shot. This is remarkable because you'd think that after, for example, 10 inductionless critted Rain of Arrows in a row that taking the time for the Split Shot induction would decrease aoe dps. But it doesn't and lots of testing using Combat Analysis has confirmed this.

    I usually run in strength stance and keep up the +5% bonus from hunter's art constantly. If maintained, and you can keep two buffs of it active, it results in 10% more damage. When I run in endurance and am low on power, I use the hunter's art to get a boost to icpr. However, in precision I don't use hunter's art.

    So please don't malign two hunter skills that I personally find very useful. Honestly, I don't care what skills come and go in upcoming revamp as long as hunters can still build for aoe. Or if not aoe, then something useful like off-healing, off-tanking, best-across-classes single dps, something!
    other favorite middle-earth games: The One Ring RPG by Cubicle 7; LotR: The Card Game by FFG; Hobbit/LotR Strategy Battle Game by GW

  7. #282
    Registriert seit
    02.06.2011
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    380
    Zitat Zitat von mr_toad Beitrag anzeigen
    This is a good example of how different players play the class differently. For me, Split Shot and Hunters Art are two absolutely essential skills. First off, let me explain that I trait for aoe dps and use LI aoe dps legacies.

    I've done extensive dps testing parses using Combat Analysis and have some to a remarkable conclusion: there is no decrease in aoe dps for my hunter when I interrupt a crit chain of Rain of Arrows with a Split Shot. This is remarkable because you'd think that after, for example, 10 inductionless critted Rain of Arrows in a row that taking the time for the Split Shot induction would decrease aoe dps. But it doesn't and lots of testing using Combat Analysis has confirmed this.

    I usually run in strength stance and keep up the +5% bonus from hunter's art constantly. If maintained, and you can keep two buffs of it active, it results in 10% more damage. When I run in endurance and am low on power, I use the hunter's art to get a boost to icpr. However, in precision I don't use hunter's art.

    So please don't malign two hunter skills that I personally find very useful. Honestly, I don't care what skills come and go in upcoming revamp as long as hunters can still build for aoe. Or if not aoe, then something useful like off-healing, off-tanking, best-across-classes single dps, something!
    No one is saying that the Improved Split Shot is a bad skill, they are refering to the original, Rise of Isengard era skill. The one with a 2m radius that meant you could not hit more than 3 targets even if legacied, and that did not feed you more than one focus points (+ crits) while it now is a powerfull tool in AoE situations, no one will argue against that.

    Concerning Hunter's Art, it's the same as the origianl version was a plain nightmare : average damage for an extremely long attack duration and an expensive focus cost. The current version is usefull if you run Endurance (I somtimes did for the Lieutenant of Dol Guldur, it helped a lot for power management) or Strength Stance (the latter is however almost abandonned now, maybe only hard AoE situations could see it more efficient than Precision). The only place I've seen some use to Precision's Hunter's Art (finesse buff) was to kill the lights at Fornost Fire Wing's last encounter (it helps with their annoying evade rating ).


    People here aren't saying that those skills are currently bad, but that we were originally given tools that were not balanced and clearly not to our advantage. It is a sad thing that it took months of complaining and a full expansion pack time to correct those skills...

  8. #283
    Registriert seit
    16.06.2007
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    1.027
    Zitat Zitat von Gabli Beitrag anzeigen
    No one is saying that the Improved Split Shot is a bad skill, they are refering to the original, Rise of Isengard era skill. The one with a 2m radius that meant you could not hit more than 3 targets even if legacied, and that did not feed you more than one focus points (+ crits) while it now is a powerfull tool in AoE situations, no one will argue against that.

    ....
    My bad, sorry I can't read. Thanks for the correction.
    other favorite middle-earth games: The One Ring RPG by Cubicle 7; LotR: The Card Game by FFG; Hobbit/LotR Strategy Battle Game by GW

  9. #284
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    01.06.2011
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    1.876
    Zitat Zitat von mr_toad Beitrag anzeigen
    My bad, sorry I can't read. Thanks for the correction.
    And remember - they did not 'fix' split shot. They sold it to us as a new skill while other classes were getting genuinely new skills.

    My point is, that time after time after time, devs throw changes at us that are patently absurd. No more than one moment of thought was needed to realise the absurdity of the original split shot or the original long animation of hunters art. That's why I'm not optimistic about the upcoming massive changes.

    On past experience I expect them to appear to have been barely tested and complete with obvious glaring failures and the slightly less obvious glaring failures testers have futiley tried pointing out. Then there'll be months and months of 'flailing blindly around' updates in an attempt to fix stuff.

    I want it to be awesome but I've learned to be a pessimist when it comes to Hunter changes.

  10. #285
    Registriert seit
    27.01.2010
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    208
    Zitat Zitat von Kongas Beitrag anzeigen
    And remember - they did not 'fix' split shot. They sold it to us as a new skill while other classes were getting genuinely new skills.
    This bothered me a little but the thing that really pushes my buttons is to see legendary traits and some skills like PRESS ONWARD stuck in the age of the first and second expansion. Anyone you ask says that press onward is a PATHETIC and almost USELESS skill, a heal that has a long induction, has a long CD, and doesn't even heal a third or half of my moral or power. Most minstrels can hit bigger heals using instant cast heals while in warspeech (which decreases the amount your heals do) while moving and with a CD of under 1 min (and it isn't even a legendary trait/skill). Press Onward is a waste of a legendary trait/skill and don't even get me started about Bow of Righteousness (that is 100 times worse then Press Onward).
    The end of an age has come and the wheel of time turns on. We will meet again when the wheel allows it.

  11. #286
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    01.06.2011
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    1.876
    Yes, both those issues should have been addressed years ago. Neither come within a 100 leagues of being 'Legendary'. If they were just a red or blue I wouldn't slot them.

    This skill tree malarky better restore some balance between classes (which would require making hunters a helluva lot better IMHO) or I can't see myself sticking around.

    As it is I have little reason to log on any more.

  12. #287
    Registriert seit
    11.04.2011
    Ort
    S Korea
    Beiträge
    961
    Zitat Zitat von Kelsan Beitrag anzeigen
    Hey all,
    Thanks for the great posts (keep’em coming!), I’m happy to see a lot of passion and desire for meaningful changes. I’m also very pleased to say that my own analysis of hits many of the core issues you’ve outlined. (Yeah… I know, I said the same thing in the Burglar thread, but it’s true!)

    I can’t go too deep into what I’ve been experimenting with, but I wanted to let you know that we are on the same page.

    A few general things I agree with and have been attempting to address:
    1. Lack of survivability – Both general survival and panic buttons are in need of some love
    2. Role Definition is lacking – Bowmaster vs Huntsman (vs other DPS classes)
    3. Trapper of Foes does what? – This line needs a clear purpose in group and solo play.
    4. Skill Rotation needs an examination – we have some redundant and outdated skills
    5. Legendaries that are less than Legendary

    These, of course, aren’t the only things I’m addressing/adding, but I think these are some of the most prominent issues listed in this thread.

    I’m hoping to be able to post my analysis of the class in the near-ish future, so stay tuned!

    So 1/3 of a year since this post and nothing at all since March 21st (2013).

    How near-ish is the future? Do we need to do something with a DeLorean?

    Still staying tuned.

  13. #288
    Registriert seit
    27.01.2010
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    208
    Death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain. -al'Lan Mandragoran

    I give up on turbine. Death has been prevailed. I will miss my hunter.
    The end of an age has come and the wheel of time turns on. We will meet again when the wheel allows it.

  14. #289
    Registriert seit
    18.12.2010
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    47
    I have to say, of all of the things I want to see on the hunter, a REAL class item would help. Those scholar-crafted books are a sad, rather silly excuse for a class item. At least Warden carvings actually do something useful more than give some more power. What i really want to see (not sure if it has already been mentioned) is a legendary Quiver instead of a melee sword. We really don't need melee too much, cus if things are making it in close range, then you aren't dps-ing fast enough.

    A quiver would provide interesting new legacy opportunities as well as a nice cosmetic look (at the hip or over the back, doesn't matter) and would make much more sense than giving us a sword. That, or a different real class item, is what i want to see.
    Zacharr -- 100 -- Hunter -- Firefoot. I guess that's the new character signature :P

  15. #290
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    01.06.2011
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    1.876
    Zitat Zitat von Gibraisia Beitrag anzeigen
    We really don't need melee too much, cus if things are making it in close range, then you aren't dps-ing fast enough.
    Totally disagree. The hunter, from its inception was always a melee capable character. It pains me that we've moved away from us being a viable off-tanker in a reasonable range of situations and I'd hate to become a ranged only class. I developed and invested way more time and money than I should have in a melee capable bowman. The diluting of this capability has already gone too far, particularly in the context where other classes ability to do dps on top of their supposed 'primary' role continues apace.

    Besides there are endless situations where that statement simply isn't true.

    Now if the Hunter sword was replaced with a Legendary quiver that would be empowering as we could then get some boosts from a second melee weapon.

  16. #291
    Registriert seit
    21.09.2011
    Ort
    AFK in Dol Amroth
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    816
    And then we get passives like every other class
    inc heal/damage threat/power costs/mits or even multiple stats. Better than +37 agil...


    Mmmm imagine.... Two golden hunter daggers...16% lolol
    Fellowship Hadacar: I now have a mental image of a little pea with a NE Patriot's logo painted on it.
    From Dwarrowdelf to Arkenstone | Asylum | No-QQ

  17. #292
    Registriert seit
    18.12.2010
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    47
    Zitat Zitat von Kongas Beitrag anzeigen
    Totally disagree. The hunter, from its inception was always a melee capable character. It pains me that we've moved away from us being a viable off-tanker in a reasonable range of situations and I'd hate to become a ranged only class. I developed and invested way more time and money than I should have in a melee capable bowman. The diluting of this capability has already gone too far, particularly in the context where other classes ability to do dps on top of their supposed 'primary' role continues apace.

    Now if the Hunter sword was replaced with a Legendary quiver that would be empowering as we could then get some boosts from a second melee weapon.
    Oh please don't misunderstand me, I don't mean that the hunter can't melee. And a lot of the skills like blindside, Dazing Blow, adn such are useful and I love them. Blindside is actually one of my favorite skills I just believe we don't need an LI sword for the amount of melee we do, and that the slot would be better spent on a class item.

    also i thought of my two other thigns besides the Quiver:

    1) Scale the damage on skills like Heartseeker please please please
    2) Make the dazes on dazing blow and dazing shot stuns, because they are short enough without breaking as it is.
    Zacharr -- 100 -- Hunter -- Firefoot. I guess that's the new character signature :P

  18. #293
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    18.06.2011
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    102
    It's been a while since the last post, and the dev chat seem to imply a lot of yummy changes to hunters (eg in-combat traps, choice for induction on the move (at the cost of 40m range)). Any idea when the dev diaries are scheduled to come? (Sapience mentioned that he already have 6/9 of the dev diaries ready to be translated and proof read). I am really looking with cautious anticipation as to the changes to the class..

    https://www.lotro.com/en/forums/show...6-hunter-tanks
    really bring back old memories of pulling enemies from squishies and range tanking specific bosses...
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b0000001da17c/01004/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  19. #294
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    18.12.2010
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    47
    I'm actually pretty excited to see the hunter dev diary

    on a twitter post, lotro said it would release captain diary on monday, and then two more class diaries per week after that. crossing my fingers, as it seems like a lot of our ideas were actually used

    although it says nothing about legendary quivers looks like thats just another dream never to be fullfilled /sigh
    Zacharr -- 100 -- Hunter -- Firefoot. I guess that's the new character signature :P

  20. #295
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    23.04.2011
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    6.073
    The diaries are being released in alphabetical order so.... Burglar, Captain, Champion, Guardian, Hunter, Lore Master, Minstrel, Rune Keeper, Warden. So right in the middle, probably next week sometime. I suspect, with all the changes there will be good and bad, some people will be happy some will not be. I hope its spectacular for turbines sake a major class revamp across the board could put some people off. We'll see....

  21. #296
    Registriert seit
    25.12.2008
    Ort
    Middle Earth, Arda
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    4.270

    Wink

    Be patient, is comming really soon.
    Is this Alternate Playable Character Disorder? :

    Check my Kinship at Gladden server: The Fate of Middle Earth

  22. #297
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    21.04.2012
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    56
    Zitat Zitat von YamydeAragon Beitrag anzeigen
    Be patient, is comming really soon.
    It looks like something is happening. My Improved Dazing Blow is not working. I hope it gets fixed next week.

  23. #298
    Registriert seit
    19.03.2011
    Beiträge
    7

    Delete the Class,

    Well I play a hunter, and comparing them to other classes this class is a waste to spend three years on which I did.

    I have tried to get to where I had end of game play, the class can not do anything near what other classes in the game can solo. So, save yourself time a call all hunters to like a major city and kill them.

    "That might be little to extreme but there is no fix I can see to where a hunter can play at the level a hunter to me should be at, whoever made the class so squishy should be happy."

    Things that could be added more distance in shots, like maybe even a different bow for very long range shots a long bow or (foot bow - like the Chinese history shows them using you would need a helper to aim as the Chinese did).
    Another when doing the tree stuff maybe try to make it less a linear stat build, make it so like you can put 1 point under something and have a actual skill appear after picking that skill type (not you only have these skills when linear reach of level 32) and how many you put there would build the damage level, or you could have tree more where you add all the group of series lines to have a special skill that than you spend so many points on to make it have more or less damage. If that makes sense to you, I am hoping the tree idea to come out with after Helms Deep is launched, is more like I am thinking.

    Also, add to all class the or just to hunter on War-steed Bolas or Lasso's. Like I said all classes could use this to me on the war-steed.

    There needs to me to be both a linear structure like you have in your traits now, and a none-linear. Linear you have these deeds for this set of skills and traits to do these thing you get them, non-linear a set of picked action (like when you work a job you will need to learn thing you never heard of on the spot) so a player can pick and put point in a field that relates to subject of abilities that add to skill level of specific play style.

    Things the hunter needs to help on vitality and on morale and in some way the survivability of the class(not so squishy). The dps of the hunter is not so great to me when all other classes do more damage than hunters.

  24. #299
    Registriert seit
    22.02.2007
    Beiträge
    1.509

    Lightbulb Maybe this would get me to play a hunter again.

    I retired my hunter before Rohan. Sad that I only level him up to 85 because he was my guilded cook. My hunter was my first class that I enjoyed after testing the waters.
    My main now is a tied between capt and mini.
    For me personal, I would love to see
    1. Hunter pew pew without inductions, and on the move.
    2. Revamp of yellow trapper line
    3. fixing up press onwards and bow of righteous. I think it's time for a scale version
    4. Get rid off melee LI, give us a LI book instead with LI skills like improved fleetness becomes a toggle on skill, a self-heal skill, heartseeker has a bleed with a duration of 15s etc etc.
    5. Increase our DPS! We are a dps class that is our main thing, why is a RK out dps us?!
    6. We are hunters, increase our tracking ability and range?
    “A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities.” -???

  25. #300
    Registriert seit
    05.06.2011
    Beiträge
    290
    The dev diary is allread out and a lot of people have allready made most point but still.

    1. Survival, both Solo and group our lack of ability to take a hit is glaringly obvious and we aren't overburdened with way's of dealing with it in term of self healing or CC.

    2. Bad inductions. People complain about HS scaling, but it's not that HS dosen't scale well, it's that it was always a bad skill in terms of induction vs damage. In fact all our induction skills have this. Everyone plays huntsmen and gets top DPS from it soely because our focus skills do better DPS since they have no induction. Sure you need some induction skils to generate focus but huntsmen minimise induction skills needed and induction time.

    3. Very littile differentiation between bowmaster and hunstman, both are DPS lines and in a raid fight the extra mobility alone would make huntmen better even if everything else we had was equal.

 

 
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