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  1. #51
    Registriert seit
    28.05.2012
    Ort
    In my TARDIS
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    123
    Zitat Zitat von LinoraAmell Beitrag anzeigen
    I'll probably get flak for this, but I did. It was hard getting past the first 11 pages when I picked it up one day. I have ADD and Dyslexia. Being too descriptive in writing is overbearing and "noisy" for me. I applaud trying to pain vivid images, but it's too much. I was disappointed with myself that I couldn't really get into it. I would love to RP in the game, but I'm nervous since I hardly know the lore, and pretty much all of it is in those books, which are brain-wracking for me. I do love reading, don't get me wrong, but certain books don't do it for me because in the scenes, too much is going on and I lose interest rapidly.

    I wouldn't exactly call the book boring, though. There's just too much to take, especially for an individual like me. I'm a huge nerd, but if you use giant fancy descriptive words and three paragraphs about how nicely-made a table is... yeah. Not my cup of tea.
    Absolutely nothing wrong with this. I will admit that for the first ~20 times I read it, I skipped the Old Forest, skimmed the council of Elrond, and don't think I ever got through book 4. You should see some other books, like Les Mis, or anything else written before LotR. Try listening to them on a audiobook, that helps sometimes (you can tune out for certain parts)

    One last thing on the sexism: A good fantasy or Science Fiction is a unstained mirror of real life, in fact, the best books (like the lord of the rings)are more real than reality itself. Thus, these genres must reflect the culture of the time they are to reflect. In the time J.R.R. Tolkien wrote in, they specialized so that each sex worked in the way that would best utilize their skills:the man's strength(testosterone) and the woman's patience and communication(women have ~15% more neurons in their brains devoted to speech and communication). I still think that this system works better, rather than the system where everyone feels they have to do everything, even if there is someone else(like their spouse) who could do it better. Wasn't even "oppressive" to women until after the renaissance. Until then, work was seen as a good thing and the work did not have to be of great renown for it to be very good. ("Valour without renown") In fact, the less renown you had the better, because they took pride very seriously in the middle ages (chief of vices and all that, read Dante's Divine Comedy, possibly the only work to beat the Lord of the Rings in my book). Women were very well respected in Rome & all through the Middle Ages, like Galadriel they were consulted on everything & their husbands were subordinate to them, but they were also subordinate to their husbands(again like Galadriel). Much like Creon in Oedipus Rex, they had all the power without much of the responsibility(they had different responsibilities). And that is how Tolkien portrays his women(with the notable exception of Eowyn, who has been covered enough in this thread).
    Lore-Monkey(not a Lore Guardian) and proud of it.

    .

  2. #52
    Registriert seit
    21.02.2012
    Ort
    New York
    Beiträge
    500
    I actually had considered MMO's incredibly boring but am now completely addicted to to this one via my love of the books. Anybody who can get through their Zeal deeds should be OCD enough to focus on just about anything.

  3. #53
    Registriert seit
    01.06.2011
    Beiträge
    72
    Zitat Zitat von Takekaze Beitrag anzeigen
    I can only say, from my own experience: don't ever read them in any other language than English. Seriously.
    Are you referring to the Swedish translation by Åke Ohlmark? That one is by far the worst translation I have ever read! I tend to stay away from translations the best I can, but this is one that I have read just because of its notouriety.
    Geändert von Gadmur (24.04.2013 um 08:12 Uhr)

  4. #54
    Registriert seit
    15.05.2010
    Beiträge
    68
    Zitat Zitat von Mellonbeleg Beitrag anzeigen
    Depends on my level of sanity.
    If I am sane, relaxed, rested, and sober, No, they are not boring.

    However, some parts do drag on(Council of Elrond once you know what happens, a few other chapters).

    It definitely is a book you need to be ready for, its not like the dime novel you pick up to pass the time, but its not the Brothers Karamazov or Les Miserable or Moby Dick.

    Tolkien is probably one of only a few authors who successfully made a long book with very intricate details that is not boring. He did not write about one person(like one of his wannabes, J.K Rowling) or about a war(like another, Christopher Paolini) but about a language and an entire World. His work created Fantasy, before him fantasy did not exist.

    Oh, and chieth, in most of history, women would have been insulted to be treated as if they were no different than men, and even Eowyn was unhappy and sour until she fell in love with Faramir and settled down. That is one of Tolkien's points. There is a method to his madness. Of course, if you just wanted more women mentioned, but treated with the respect women deserve, then the problem is that there was a war going on, which tends to be the province of men, given that they can more easily swing swords. I believe Tolkien wrote a letter concerning this, although I don't know which one off the top of my head. On swarthy skinned folk, the free people are those who had contact with the elves, who stayed in the northwest. Also, LOTR is supposed to be a myth for the people of England, and the English had little or no friendly contact with Africans. Even most of Europe had trouble with them(goes back to Christian[European]/Muslim[Arabian/North African] Rivalry, not to mention the slave trade). So he is not being Racist or Sexist.

    Tolkien was born in South Africa....

    Great Britain colonised parts of Africa and had some rather famous battles there at places like Isandlwhana and Rorkes Drift ....it was a large part of our Empire. As was India.

    Great Britain led the shamed way in the Slave Trade but also were one of the first to abolish it....

    Many Africans fought bravely as part of the British Empire during both world wars....

    I don't think we had 'little or no' contact with Africa or that as a nation, we were unaware or particularly unfriendly towards Africa (our previous crimes of colonisation and slavery excepted of course...shame, shame....) . In fact, for two hundred years, Africa has played a big part in Great Britain's culture. I also think Tolkien was worldly and wise enough to be more than aware of them.

    I always understood the tale of the ring to be borne out Tolkien's love of Norse mythology so there's a strong case that the world of 'men' in his works resembles that of Norse men. But I also think there are many light and dark skinned characters in the books because after all, it's a fantasy about many different races and cultures. I never assumed them all to be 'white'.
    If in danger from Red, Call Glod.....

  5. #55
    Registriert seit
    24.04.2007
    Ort
    Gallifrey. I need a Jelly Baby.
    Beiträge
    18.190
    Well, you have to forgive Tolkien for not being hip on 21st century PC. I'm sure he did his best to anticipate what people might think 60 years down the road....
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  6. #56
    Registriert seit
    15.05.2010
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    68
    Zitat Zitat von Nymphonic Beitrag anzeigen
    Well, you have to forgive Tolkien for not being hip on 21st century PC. I'm sure he did his best to anticipate what people might think 60 years down the road....
    Um...no that's not what I meant. I meant Africa was probably a bigger part of our national psyche back then than it is now - certainly at the turn of the century and leading up to the second world war when the British Empire still existed....and as he was born out there....All I was doing was responding to the statement that England had 'little or no' interaction with Africa. That's not true - in Tolkien's time.
    If in danger from Red, Call Glod.....

  7. #57
    Registriert seit
    24.04.2007
    Ort
    Gallifrey. I need a Jelly Baby.
    Beiträge
    18.190
    Zitat Zitat von Cjdobs Beitrag anzeigen
    Um...no that's not what I meant. I meant Africa was probably a bigger part of our national psyche back then than it is now - certainly at the turn of the century and leading up to the second world war when the British Empire still existed....and as he was born out there....All I was doing was responding to the statement that England had 'little or no' interaction with Africa. That's not true - in Tolkien's time.

    My apologies. I just get irritated when people call Tolkien racist and sexist and I over reacted. I looked at your post again and it was clear that's not what you meant. Once again, my apologies.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  8. #58
    Registriert seit
    31.03.2007
    Ort
    Texas
    Beiträge
    2.115
    Bah. Most of that PC stuff is hogwash anyway.
    Today is a good day for Pie.

    Do not meddle in the affairs of Burglars, for they are subtle and quick to shank you.

  9. #59
    Registriert seit
    15.05.2010
    Beiträge
    68
    Zitat Zitat von Nymphonic Beitrag anzeigen
    My apologies. I just get irritated when people call Tolkien racist and sexist and I over reacted. I looked at your post again and it was clear that's not what you meant. Once again, my apologies.
    Tis ok! and for the record I definitely don't think he was racist or sexist in any way - he wrote in a period of time when attitudes were different and I accept that totally. Plus I always understood that he was very non allegorical anyway - a story teller not a preacher.

    Not that I see much inequality in his writing at all. There's nothing I would change in his work - except make it longer
    If in danger from Red, Call Glod.....

 

 
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