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  1. #1
    Registriert seit
    05.04.2009
    Beiträge
    327

    Awaiting Turbine Response to Bugged Draigoch

    I know, I know, I know, I know there are other MULTIPLE posts on this, but I am waiting for the dev's to respond in some meaningful fashion to this!!!!.

    Seriously, Turbine......It's inexcusable, where this is one of the few 12 man raids, that yields good gear, and people can do in the Post RoI world.....and it has been bugged since the get-go.

    It's time to put up a post in the official thread forums acknowledging this issue and either telling us how to avoid the bug, or fix it, or at least make it clear you have a fairly good chance of wasting a lot of time on this raid for nuffin.

    But come on!
    Geändert von Afuna (29.11.2011 um 14:54 Uhr)

  2. #2
    Registriert seit
    19.01.2009
    Beiträge
    704

    Re: Awaiting Turbine Response to Bugged Draigoch

    I'm pretty sure turbine doesn't care as long as you keep paying them.

  3. #3
    Registriert seit
    19.06.2010
    Beiträge
    20

    Re: Awaiting Turbine Response to Bugged Draigoch

    ...and this is why I'm moving to SWTOR. Why is it so difficult to fix bugs that have been reported during and after beta? What's the point of reporting bugs then? The staff responsible for fixing instances just seem lazy to me.

  4. #4
    Registriert seit
    13.05.2007
    Beiträge
    1.189

    Re: Awaiting Turbine Response to Bugged Draigoch

    It's in the update 5 patch notes, what more of a response do you need?
    "For them to perceive the advantage of defeating the enemy, they must also have their rewards." ~Sun Tzu

  5. #5
    Registriert seit
    21.09.2007
    Ort
    Behind you.... With a knife....
    Beiträge
    420

    Re: Awaiting Turbine Response to Bugged Draigoch

    Yes it's in the patch notes, but if it truly is fixed, the problem must have been known, so either it is avoidable and how to avoid it should be shared, or it is unavoidable and we ought to be notified. Seeing as an Update 5 release date hasn't been disclosed, there is still a lot of time in which the fight will bug on people. If there is any way for this to be avoided, we should be told now, not in the vague future.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c000000069736/01005/signature.png]Smugo[/charsig]

  6. #6
    Registriert seit
    05.04.2009
    Beiträge
    327

    Re: Awaiting Turbine Response to Bugged Draigoch

    Zitat Zitat von Smugo Beitrag anzeigen
    Yes it's in the patch notes, but if it truly is fixed, the problem must have been known, so either it is avoidable and how to avoid it should be shared, or it is unavoidable and we ought to be notified. Seeing as an Update 5 release date hasn't been disclosed, there is still a lot of time in which the fight will bug on people. If there is any way for this to be avoided, we should be told now, not in the vague future.
    What he said!

  7. #7
    Registriert seit
    07.07.2007
    Beiträge
    295

    Re: Awaiting Turbine Response to Bugged Draigoch

    I can't remember exactly how the release notes for U5 read, but I seem to recall it stating that the fixes to Draigoch would only REDUCE the likelihood of him going braindead. My interpretation is that they've identified and fixed only some of the cause for bug outs, but have either not identified others or have not fixed them.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c00000005f578/01000/signature.png]Karaoke[/charsig]

  8. #8
    Registriert seit
    05.06.2007
    Beiträge
    35.532

    Re: Awaiting Turbine Response to Bugged Draigoch

    Zitat Zitat von Afuna Beitrag anzeigen
    It's time to put up a post in the official thread forums acknowledging this issue and either telling us how to avoid the bug, or fix it, or at least make it clear you have a fairly good chance of wasting a lot of time on this raid for nuffin.
    Several thoughts here:

    1) Draigoch is a flagship component of the expansion. A separate purchase from the store. It is a money item. It is not permitted to talk about the problems officially. That would reduce sales. Be bad Public Relations. Nothing unusual here. Silence is the USA business standard for companies.

    Turbine is better than many companies. We can grumble about it. Talk about it amongst ourselves in Turbine's playground. As long as we do not throw too much sand around.

    2) I doubt there is much advice Turbine can give to avoid the problems. I suspect a lot of the issues are internal problems with their code, tech and scripting. There is no easy avoid on our end - other than the obvious - do not mess with the Dragon.

    3) Draigoch has been in development for at least nine months. All the remaining problems are going to difficult to reproduce and fix. All the easy problems were fixed a long time ago. Hence the long delay between Update 4 and the next set of fixes in Update 5. When you have difficult bugs in complicated software, it is pretty easy to get poorer performance. It is challenging to make it better.

    IMHO - Given all the new tech. It will be September 2012 before they get Draigoch rock solid. I hope I am wrong. That is kind of time frame it took to correct issues with some of the Moria and Mirkwood instances.

    As to how long it takes to get Draigoch down to a low failure level no idea. I thinking Update 6. I doubt given the number of player complaints, Turbine will get all of them fixed in Update 5. They will deploy fixes for most common problems. See what remaining problems still exist.
    Geändert von Yula_the_Mighty (30.11.2011 um 00:35 Uhr)
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  9. #9
    Registriert seit
    01.06.2011
    Ort
    Sweden
    Beiträge
    1.456

    Re: Awaiting Turbine Response to Bugged Draigoch

    My take on the release note is that if the fix reduces the likelihood of something happening then it's probably some kind of timing issue and if it's a timing issue it might be neigh to impossible to reliably reproduce the problem thus making debugging extremely difficult. (Yes, I work with software development so I do know something about debugging stuff)

    A timing issue could be things like someone dieing within the ping time (different players have different ping at different times, try to reproduce that...) of a phase transition, a DoT ticking just when a script event activates (e.g. him falling to the ground or getting up again), someone lagging or DC:ing or getting rezzed at the "wrong" time. How do you give a bulletproof way to avoid that? Make sure all your teammates have rock solid Internet connections, don't die and don't do anything withing half a second of any script event? Doesn't sound like a good work-around to me...

    Yes, communication is important even if it's just saying "we're aware of it and are working on a fix.". The release note clearly indicates that they, in fact, are aware of the problem and are working on a solution.
    [I]A small cog in a big machine.
    [/I]
    Life has no "Undo" button, only "I'm sorry". Thinking before doing is a good thing.

  10. #10
    Registriert seit
    23.09.2010
    Ort
    Estonia
    Beiträge
    913

    Re: Awaiting Turbine Response to Bugged Draigoch

    Be as it may, it would've felt so much more gratifying if they had at least said that there's was a problem and they're trying to fix it. What we got was silence and then reduced likelihood of bugs happening in update 5. That's not what I paid for. Sub cancelled, ends in the end of Dec, just in time for YOUKNOWWHAT!
    Quit.

    Find me on Steam and ESO, same name.

  11. #11
    Registriert seit
    02.06.2011
    Beiträge
    4

    Re: Awaiting Turbine Response to Bugged Draigoch

    My Girlfriend and me cancelled our supscription due to that bug. No more mony for buggy instances and areas...and no support at all.

  12. #12
    Registriert seit
    25.05.2009
    Beiträge
    236

    Re: Awaiting Turbine Response to Bugged Draigoch

    Zitat Zitat von Woida Beitrag anzeigen
    My Girlfriend and me cancelled our supscription due to that bug. No more mony for buggy instances and areas...and no support at all.
    My good friend and his girlfriend subbed last week.

    See how this works?

  13. #13
    Registriert seit
    21.03.2007
    Ort
    Chicago
    Beiträge
    841

    Re: Awaiting Turbine Response to Bugged Draigoch

    they are reducing the severity of the sw defect by shortening the fight (reduced morale) and they are reducing (not eliminating) the likelihood of the sw defect occurring.

    it is impossible for a for-profit business to code defect free software in a constantly changing environment. the best you can hope to do is to manage the defects you do get and try to avoid them in the future.

    ps - i hope they do find a good fix since this is a nasty defect that can flush 12 man-hours of effort...
    Freeps: Beast, Cadaverous, Deadite, Elphaba, Joules, Kookaburra, Stheno, Weebey, Zod
    Creeps: Barfbag, Bulgingeggsac, Elphabash, Farfel
    {SM/2H1R}

  14. #14
    Registriert seit
    25.03.2007
    Beiträge
    280

    Re: Awaiting Turbine Response to Bugged Draigoch

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ted-10-20-2011

    still not listed in the only isen known issue thread. THIS is why more and more posts/threads are made. please just add it to the known issues list already...

  15. #15
    Registriert seit
    15.06.2010
    Beiträge
    227

    Re: Awaiting Turbine Response to Bugged Draigoch

    It is not the bugs that are the issue so much as the bugs PLUS the LACK OF RESPONSE. SWTOR will have bugs, too, and when the have rushed released in the months after the game comes out there will be just as many as other games, but turbine could have saved a huge amount of frustration by just acknowledging the bugs.

  16. #16
    Registriert seit
    28.03.2009
    Beiträge
    67

    Here's another frustrated customer

    Wow, and this one goes back a ways....

  17. #17
    Registriert seit
    28.03.2009
    Beiträge
    67
    Zitat Zitat von Yula_the_Mighty Beitrag anzeigen
    Several thoughts here:

    1) Draigoch is a flagship component of the expansion. A separate purchase from the store. It is a money item. It is not permitted to talk about the problems officially. That would reduce sales. Be bad Public Relations. Nothing unusual here. Silence is the USA business standard for companies.

    Turbine is better than many companies. We can grumble about it. Talk about it amongst ourselves in Turbine's playground. As long as we do not throw too much sand around.

    2) I doubt there is much advice Turbine can give to avoid the problems. I suspect a lot of the issues are internal problems with their code, tech and scripting. There is no easy avoid on our end - other than the obvious - do not mess with the Dragon.

    3) Draigoch has been in development for at least nine months. All the remaining problems are going to difficult to reproduce and fix. All the easy problems were fixed a long time ago. Hence the long delay between Update 4 and the next set of fixes in Update 5. When you have difficult bugs in complicated software, it is pretty easy to get poorer performance. It is challenging to make it better.

    IMHO - Given all the new tech. It will be September 2012 before they get Draigoch rock solid. I hope I am wrong. That is kind of time frame it took to correct issues with some of the Moria and Mirkwood instances.

    As to how long it takes to get Draigoch down to a low failure level no idea. I thinking Update 6. I doubt given the number of player complaints, Turbine will get all of them fixed in Update 5. They will deploy fixes for most common problems. See what remaining problems still exist.
    WELL it's now the end of July 2013 and Draigoch is a very horrible shoddy piece of coding that Turbine is leaving in the store and leaving active.....Nice.

  18. #18
    Registriert seit
    26.12.2009
    Beiträge
    1.496
    The way to report something that is bugged is to submit a bug report. That is the direct connection to the people who work on fixing things. Necro-ing every thread ever written on Draigoch will do nothing except get all of those threads locked, without them ever reaching the people who need to see them.

  19. #19
    Registriert seit
    13.02.2013
    Ort
    California
    Beiträge
    174
    Zitat Zitat von Whart Beitrag anzeigen
    The way to report something that is bugged is to submit a bug report. That is the direct connection to the people who work on fixing things. Necro-ing every thread ever written on Draigoch will do nothing except get all of those threads locked, without them ever reaching the people who need to see them.
    Considering that many of us who have experienced the bugs referred to have indeed gone through proper channels for bug reporting as they happened, at the time they happened, and still not seen them fixed now going on years after the fact, it is understandable that someone has taken the trouble of going to an extreme to make a point of and draw attention to the issue. Maybe it isn't the best way to do it, considering the response I have no *doubt* he will get for doing this..., but I understand the impulse. Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.

  20. #20
    Registriert seit
    28.03.2009
    Beiträge
    67
    Zitat Zitat von Souldan Beitrag anzeigen
    Considering that many of us who have experienced the bugs referred to have indeed gone through proper channels for bug reporting as they happened, at the time they happened, and still not seen them fixed now going on years after the fact, it is understandable that someone has taken the trouble of going to an extreme to make a point of and draw attention to the issue. Maybe it isn't the best way to do it, considering the response I have no *doubt* he will get for doing this..., but I understand the impulse. Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.
    Thanks for the support. I've just had it with Draigoch and I'm not letting the issue drop. I'm not accepting their excuses and/or nonaction. They are accepting money from people paying for a defective instance. It's not like it just popped up. It has been going on for years now. Man up and fix it, or deactivate it.

  21. #21
    Registriert seit
    28.03.2009
    Beiträge
    67
    Zitat Zitat von Whart Beitrag anzeigen
    The way to report something that is bugged is to submit a bug report. That is the direct connection to the people who work on fixing things. Necro-ing every thread ever written on Draigoch will do nothing except get all of those threads locked, without them ever reaching the people who need to see them.
    Oh, btw, you saying that NO ONE has filed bug reports on this instance in the past and on a continuous basis? Really?

  22. #22
    Registriert seit
    26.12.2009
    Beiträge
    1.496
    Zitat Zitat von Souldan Beitrag anzeigen
    Considering that many of us who have experienced the bugs referred to have indeed gone through proper channels for bug reporting as they happened, at the time they happened, and still not seen them fixed now going on years after the fact, it is understandable that someone has taken the trouble of going to an extreme to make a point of and draw attention to the issue. Maybe it isn't the best way to do it, considering the response I have no *doubt* he will get for doing this..., but I understand the impulse. Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.
    Sure, it's totally understandable that people who want to play the instance and can't should be able to express that. But spamming every old thread ever written on the instance isn't the way to do it. Start a new thread that provides evidence that the bugs reported upon release (or upon the various patches that made things worse) have still not been fixed. One post. Then let the rest of the people using this forum for information about other instances get their questions asked and answered rather than being buried under a dozen old threads where nothing more is added than 'see, here's another thread about this'. I would have completely supported a single new post that said 'Draig is still bugging, here are the details, please fix.'

    I've had it bug on me too a few times. Frustrating when that happens? Of course. Enough to make me violate the CoC, insult Turbine employees, try to start a mass uprising against WB? No thanks, I have more important issues in life to deal with.

  23. #23
    Registriert seit
    28.03.2009
    Beiträge
    67
    Zitat Zitat von Whart Beitrag anzeigen
    Sure, it's totally understandable that people who want to play the instance and can't should be able to express that. But spamming every old thread ever written on the instance isn't the way to do it. Start a new thread that provides evidence that the bugs reported upon release (or upon the various patches that made things worse) have still not been fixed. One post. Then let the rest of the people using this forum for information about other instances get their questions asked and answered rather than being buried under a dozen old threads where nothing more is added than 'see, here's another thread about this'. I would have completely supported a single new post that said 'Draig is still bugging, here are the details, please fix.'

    I've had it bug on me too a few times. Frustrating when that happens? Of course. Enough to make me violate the CoC, insult Turbine employees, try to start a mass uprising against WB? No thanks, I have more important issues in life to deal with.
    Look beau, I'll tell ya just like I told the last GM/Dev that posted a response. If it is broke, remove it. Fix it. Then reactivate it. Don't sell it in the Store and then try to pass off the buggy instance like it ain't an issue. You taking money from people? Then you better put out a good product. People getting angry, then it's not their fault for your shoddy coded instance. It's YOUR fault. You deal with it. You don't ignore it and keep taking money.

  24. #24
    Registriert seit
    28.03.2009
    Beiträge
    67
    Notice the link....Grand Member....seems to be Turbine excuse makers? Again, I don't want your excuses. I want solutions.

  25. #25
    Registriert seit
    28.03.2009
    Beiträge
    67
    Zitat Zitat von Whart Beitrag anzeigen
    Sure, it's totally understandable that people who want to play the instance and can't should be able to express that. But spamming every old thread ever written on the instance isn't the way to do it. Start a new thread that provides evidence that the bugs reported upon release (or upon the various patches that made things worse) have still not been fixed. One post. Then let the rest of the people using this forum for information about other instances get their questions asked and answered rather than being buried under a dozen old threads where nothing more is added than 'see, here's another thread about this'. I would have completely supported a single new post that said 'Draig is still bugging, here are the details, please fix.'

    I've had it bug on me too a few times. Frustrating when that happens? Of course. Enough to make me violate the CoC, insult Turbine employees, try to start a mass uprising against WB? No thanks, I have more important issues in life to deal with.
    OH, btw, I don't want a mass uprising against WB, I want WB to fix Turbine's problem STAT.

 

 
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