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  1. #1
    Registriert seit
    13.09.2010
    Beiträge
    4

    Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    why?

    #1 you dont really know if your spell/skill rotation is right for max dps or healing because you dont know what your doing overall

    #2 lets just guess how much threat were doing

    #3 your in a raid, 8 people are awesome, a few are not awesome and you cant down a boss, those few awful people are dragging everyone else down and you have no idea thats what the problem is

    thats just a few reasons.. Ive heard what most people that play this game say, like "we dont want to be wow" "were not concerned with min/max etc"

    it sounds more like you want a communistic atmosphere where everyone is equal and there is no pressure for everyone to give 100% for the better of the group. in wow there are alot of immature players that boast about #1 dps but the fact is, WoW is a finly oiled raid atmosphere, there are no guilds that are competitve in end game content without addons.

    enrage timers, spawn timers etc will put one in your back door unless you know everyone is pulling their weight.. yes there is more to gameplay than dps or hps dps and hps is a huge part of gameplay.. without a dps meter its like guessing how fast your going in your car with no way to tell.. sure my weapon adds 10 dps over my other one but how much was I doing with my old one versus my new one.

    before fanboys everywhere jump on this post like new meat no im not a free player and im not trying to start a huge war, im just saying if you never want to be critisized about how you play then you shouldnt play in groups or you shouldnt play a mmo that has any kind of group cooperation content..

    If you suck at baseball, sit on the couch watching tv all the time drink beer and weigh 400 lbs your not gonna get to play in the world series with the twins.. thats just how it is and thats why guild on wow are like they are, they want to win because its a game. if lotro puts more end game content in and makes it worth raiding maybe they wouldnt have to go free to play to keep people.(and damage meters)

  2. #2
    Registriert seit
    15.07.2007
    Ort
    In the van... with candy.
    Beiträge
    4.036

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    [CENTER][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. [/COLOR] [/CENTER]

  3. #3
    Registriert seit
    22.05.2007
    Beiträge
    2

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Zitat Zitat von Glasscannon Beitrag anzeigen
    why?

    #1 you dont really know if your spell/skill rotation is right for max dps or healing because you dont know what your doing overall

    #2 lets just guess how much threat were doing

    #3 your in a raid, 8 people are awesome, a few are not awesome and you cant down a boss, those few awful people are dragging everyone else down and you have no idea thats what the problem is

    thats just a few reasons.. Ive heard what most people that play this game say, like "we dont want to be wow" "were not concerned with min/max etc"

    it sounds more like you want a communistic atmosphere where everyone is equal and there is no pressure for everyone to give 100% for the better of the group. in wow there are alot of immature players that boast about #1 dps but the fact is, WoW is a finly oiled raid atmosphere, there are no guilds that are competitve in end game content without addons.

    enrage timers, spawn timers etc will put one in your back door unless you know everyone is pulling their weight.. yes there is more to gameplay than dps or hps dps and hps is a huge part of gameplay.. without a dps meter its like guessing how fast your going in your car with no way to tell.. sure my weapon adds 10 dps over my other one but how much was I doing with my old one versus my new one.

    before fanboys everywhere jump on this post like new meat no im not a free player and im not trying to start a huge war, im just saying if you never want to be critisized about how you play then you shouldnt play in groups or you shouldnt play a mmo that has any kind of group cooperation content..

    If you suck at baseball, sit on the couch watching tv all the time drink beer and weigh 400 lbs your not gonna get to play in the world series with the twins.. thats just how it is and thats why guild on wow are like they are, they want to win because its a game. if lotro puts more end game content in and makes it worth raiding maybe they wouldnt have to go free to play to keep people.(and damage meters)
    1) LOTRO isn't F2P now because the game was dying, it's because Turbine can now make more money from a game which was already acceptably healthy, at least by all public knowledge. Also, it streamlines billing and other systems.

    2) You assume people in disagreement with your ideas are "fanboys". I dislike Turbine in many ways more than the average player, but I still find fault with your argument.

    3) LOTRO doesn't "need" DPS meters and diagnostic addons. Some players want them, others don't. But every fight in the game has been successfully completed by at least one more more groups, therefore nothing is broken which needs fixing and the entirety of LOTRO content is not so EZ mode that every raid group in the game has every boss on farm status.

    4) Every group is going to be different, from gear to traits to skill level and experience. You know how you know if you're generating the right amount of threat? If your tank has aggro on all the appropriate enemies.

    5) A discussion about meters is reasonable, but not when it starts with the tone you chose for your post. Insults are not warranted.

    6) "my weapon adds 10 dps over my other one but how much was I doing with my old one versus my new one." Assuming that you're taking about the same two weapons in both parts of that question, then your answer is: 10 DPS more.
    Geändert von manpons (12.09.2010 um 16:38 Uhr)

  4. #4
    Registriert seit
    17.01.2007
    Ort
    Amherst MA
    Beiträge
    2.104

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    LotRO does not need dps meters and other diagnostic addons. You and others may want them but they are not needed. Some of us actually play this game for fun and not for work. This is not an Auto Repair Shop here where diagnostic tools are part of the job.
    Arthad Eketta Former Drill Sgt U.S. Army Reserves
    Shin Ki-jun on Turbine's Asheron's Call Morningthaw Server
    Officer of The Fellowship of the Rogues on the Brandywine Server

  5. #5
    Registriert seit
    29.03.2007
    Ort
    Missouri
    Beiträge
    252

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Zitat Zitat von Glasscannon Beitrag anzeigen
    Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons
    No. It don't.

  6. #6
    Registriert seit
    11.08.2009
    Ort
    Landroval
    Beiträge
    1.166

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Zitat Zitat von Glasscannon Beitrag anzeigen
    in wow there are alot of immature players that boast about #1 dps but the fact is, WoW is a finly oiled raid atmosphere, there are no guilds that are competitve in end game content without addons.
    Summary:
    If you want to play an end-game raiding MMO, go play WoW.
    If you want to play an MMO concerned more with story and lore, play LotRO.

    PRO TIP: Use the search function before posting Yet Another Thread on the topic.
    [url="https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?506048-Talent-trees-class-roles-and-player-choice"]Talent trees, class roles, and player choice[/url]
    Crafting crit chance analysis: [URL="https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?410893-Sample-size-THREE-THOUSAND"]3000 sample size[/URL], [URL="https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?420198-Sample-size-ONE-THOUSAND"]1000 sample size[/URL]

  7. #7
    Registriert seit
    11.08.2008
    Beiträge
    73

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Yet another topic on this matter
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-Lua-Scripting
    All pros and cons are explained there, not need for new topic.
    It also references some older and bigger discussions with even more heated debates.

  8. #8
    Registriert seit
    13.08.2010
    Beiträge
    14

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Zitat Zitat von Trilwych Beitrag anzeigen
    Summary:
    If you want to play an end-game raiding MMO, go play WoW.
    If you want to play an MMO concerned more with story and lore, play LotRO.

    PRO TIP: Use the search function before posting Yet Another Thread on the topic.
    QFT.

    One of the last things we need is for LOTRO to be more like WoW. Another one of the last things we need are people starting off "discussions" with the "if you disagree with me you're a fanboy" fallacy.

  9. #9
    Registriert seit
    14.09.2010
    Beiträge
    10

    Lightbulb Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    No.

    What lead to the growth and downfall of WoW? Well, first off, when you factor in DPS meters you start to single out classes so you either 1.) switch classes or 2.) get into a balancing war. Then you'll start only picking the most OP classes for raids (which really doesn't matter in this game as it stands as you need balance).

    Also, you get into elitism... LOTRO is pretty darn free of that... yes there are a few people who try to epeen, but when your epic sword looks just about as cool as a regular sword... how much can you really flex? Kinships on this game have lasted since the BETA. Name some of the WoW guilds that can survive that long with people always vying for supremacy, and once they reach the top of their current guild, shopping for the next greatest deal.

    I'm glad I can go do an instance or raid without having to hear people complaining about new recruits dps under 10k single target.

    A few years ago, I was like everyone else "woohoo, I'm #1 on dps", but really... it gets old and then you grow up. You're playing a game to have fun... yes I was the first person in my guild with a trigger happy finger to boot bad recruits, but you don't need a meter to watch them targeting the wrong mobs, casting the wrong spells, or not buffing correctly.

    Now, before I hear someone say something smug trying to sound cool... I played 4.5 years in the highest level of competition raiding progression (when that term actually meant something). Personally, I sank god awful hours in both leading multiple 25 mans and min/maxing since competition was that heated. Server firsts came at a high cost and honestly began to mean less when the game required more effort than my own day to day job.

    If you want this sort of "tool", then you've only really got one choice right now... good luck with that... they really need more cash before they run out of ideas. You should really also ask yourself why you even care about dps meters in the first place. Are you wanting them to make yourself feel better that you're doing more than others? Cause I hate to say if you've made it to the end game content... you wouldn't even be posting this post. My two cents.

  10. #10
    Registriert seit
    27.03.2007
    Ort
    Stouting, The Shire
    Beiträge
    253

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    No. We don't need a DPS meter or any other diagnostics. The beauty of LotRO is that we don't have those things, and this game is focused more on story, lore, and a more relaxed atmosphere rather than being uber-leet or pumping out XXXX DPS. There are plenty of other games available for that sort of meta-gaming.

    The exact reason why I (and many, MANY others) play this game instead of WoW is because it doesn't have DPS meters. If they add those in, they'll lose many of their loyal customers.

    If Turbine understands their playerbase, they'll keep that stuff out of LotRO.
    Geändert von moxieblossom (12.09.2010 um 17:03 Uhr)
    [center][color=#ff3366]Paislea - Minstrel [/color]|[color=#cc33ff] Staesia - Champion [/color]| [color=#66cc00]Thaewyn - Lore-Master[/color][/center]
    [center][color=#ff9933]Not all who wander are lost...[/color][/center]

  11. #11
    Registriert seit
    15.04.2007
    Beiträge
    166

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    I don't want my information broadcast to others.

  12. #12
    Registriert seit
    26.02.2007
    Ort
    Houston, Tx
    Beiträge
    1.816

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Zitat Zitat von Marvellous Beitrag anzeigen
    What lead to the growth and downfall of WoW?
    LOL!!

    downfall of WoW? When did this happen? I am not a big WoW fan, but I sure hope Blizzard can recover.

  13. #13
    Registriert seit
    03.12.2009
    Ort
    Alberta Canada
    Beiträge
    476

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    No. We are not WoW. If you want that then go back to WoW.

  14. #14
    Registriert seit
    16.06.2007
    Beiträge
    400

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    LOTRO has had a personal dps meter since around 2008.
    lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/CStats

    If you want to improve your own rotation or whatever, great. Have at it.

    If you want to know what OTHER people are doing, that's not your concern, really. Seriously. If you're in a kin and don't like how someone is doing in the raid, discuss it. If you're in a PUG, and don't like how the group is doing, LEAVE.

    This game is not about min/maxing. If you feel the need, great, enjoy. Don't shove it down other people's throats. All that will happen is you'll get frustrated, and eventually you'll leave anyway. So save us all the hassle now. This game isn't about getting to the world series (HORRIBLE comparison, btw). It's about having some relaxing fun with friends. If you can't get over this simple fact, go back to WoW.
    Geändert von Greenasp (12.09.2010 um 18:04 Uhr)

  15. #15
    Registriert seit
    02.07.2010
    Beiträge
    91

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    "#3 your in a raid, 8 people are awesome, a few are not awesome and you cant down a boss, those few awful people are dragging everyone else down and you have no idea thats what the problem is"

    This is exactly why we don't need a DPS meter etc. Lotro is an inclusive game, not exclusive.

    I don't want to be kicked out of a group because someone looks at my numbers and thinks I am not "awesome".
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a0000001f745a/01003/signature.png]Icemell[/charsig]

  16. #16
    Registriert seit
    16.01.2007
    Ort
    Brampton, Ontario, CANADA
    Beiträge
    1.689

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    I disagree with the use of the word 'need' but your conclusions are more or less correct.

    The single largest problem LOTRO suffers from is mediocore players. Not all of this is the players fault. There is a significant lack of information amongst the players and how they interact with the world. Things like meters and diagnostic tools would help considerably with this.

    If you don't think this is the case, just compare kin and PUG runs. Do people in kinships possess such superior coordination, are more skilled at pressing buttons than PUGs? There is a coordination difference, but if everyone knows their class, much content should be easily doable. But it's not. I can't tell you how many bad PUGs I've been in since F2P launch. I explained the entire strategy to them, they all understood, but they still managed to fail miserably.

    Enough is enough.

    If Turbine will not make a concerted effort to improve their own players, then we, the community, need to do it ourselves. Being all positive and saying 'it's ok, it's just a game' will only lead to the mediocrity and frustration of PUGs.

    Let's make PUGs fun again. Bring on the tools.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000001078d2/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Leader, [URL="http://www.animuskin.com"]Animus[/URL]
    We are accepting applications.

  17. #17
    Registriert seit
    20.07.2010
    Beiträge
    82

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Uh, no. This game does not NEED these garbage tools. If you want a diagnostic addons, dps meters so you can show everyone how leet you are and swing your epeen by posting your stats in chat, then go back to WoW. Please don't try to ruin a very fun, enjoyable game with **** addons.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000334976/signature.png]Kellymae[/charsig]

  18. #18
    Registriert seit
    15.07.2007
    Ort
    In the van... with candy.
    Beiträge
    4.036

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Zitat Zitat von Magian Beitrag anzeigen
    Let's make PUGs fun again. Bring on the tools.
    Double serving of irony with this as your closing statement.
    [CENTER][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. [/COLOR] [/CENTER]

  19. #19
    Registriert seit
    24.04.2007
    Ort
    Gallifrey. I need a Jelly Baby.
    Beiträge
    18.073

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Zitat Zitat von Glasscannon Beitrag anzeigen


    thats just a few reasons.. Ive heard what most people that play this game say, like "we dont want to be wow" "were not concerned with min/max etc"

    it sounds more like you want a communistic atmosphere where everyone is equal and there is no pressure for everyone to give 100% for the better of the group. in wow there are alot of immature players that boast about #1 dps but the fact is, WoW is a finly oiled raid atmosphere, there are no guilds that are competitve in end game content without addons.



    before fanboys everywhere jump on this post like new meat no im not a free player and im not trying to start a huge war, im just saying if you never want to be critisized about how you play then you shouldnt play in groups or you shouldnt play a mmo that has any kind of group cooperation content..

    If you suck at baseball, sit on the couch watching tv all the time drink beer and weigh 400 lbs your not gonna get to play in the world series with the twins.. thats just how it is and thats why guild on wow are like they are, they want to win because its a game. if lotro puts more end game content in and makes it worth raiding maybe they wouldnt have to go free to play to keep people.(and damage meters)
    Thank god this game is not like WoW. I've been there, done that. WoW can take it's fine oiled raiding machine and take it where the sun doesn't shine. We've done ok for 3 years without any addons. We succeed without them and don't need them.

    And one thing we do not need is the egotistical elitist attitude that comes with dps meters. I've been there too, and the lack of that is one major reason why I'm here instead of WoW. After 2 1/2 years there I had enough and left those guys.

    We are not World of Warcraft. And thank God for that.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  20. #20
    Registriert seit
    14.07.2007
    Beiträge
    858

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Zitat Zitat von Magian Beitrag anzeigen
    I disagree with the use of the word 'need' but your conclusions are more or less correct.

    The single largest problem LOTRO suffers from is mediocore players. Not all of this is the players fault. There is a significant lack of information amongst the players and how they interact with the world. Things like meters and diagnostic tools would help considerably with this.

    If you don't think this is the case, just compare kin and PUG runs. Do people in kinships possess such superior coordination, are more skilled at pressing buttons than PUGs? There is a coordination difference, but if everyone knows their class, much content should be easily doable. But it's not. I can't tell you how many bad PUGs I've been in since F2P launch. I explained the entire strategy to them, they all understood, but they still managed to fail miserably.

    Enough is enough.

    If Turbine will not make a concerted effort to improve their own players, then we, the community, need to do it ourselves. Being all positive and saying 'it's ok, it's just a game' will only lead to the mediocrity and frustration of PUGs.

    Let's make PUGs fun again. Bring on the tools.

    I have an immeasurable amount of gratitude that I never have to play LOTRO with you. Your attitude about other players never changes, and it never ceases to cause me to vomit in my mouth just a little bit.

    I will never use meters, I will never be in a kin that makes meters mandatory. Some of my most enjoyable and joyful moments in the game have come from learning how to excel at some of the classes I've played, and I've bonded with the other players who took the time to teach me, push me and encourage me. I have friendships and loyalties which exist outside the game now because of the time and trust I've invested. These are benefits which would not exist if my mentors were meters.

    Magian, why don't you just leave everyone else the h*** alone? You have a kin, and I'd imagine that given your superiority complex that they must be a pretty decent group of players, so run content with them. When are you going to stop judging everyone else and trying to force your worldview and gameplay style on people who aren't interested in your brand of solutions?
    [url="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?366716-LOTRO-passwords-and-internet-security-how-to-safeguard-yourself"]Lotro, passwords, and internet security - how to safeguard yourself[/url]

  21. #21

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    As previously mentioned you can use cstats to analyze your personal details in great detail.

    You can also use some of my software. LotroChatNarrator can read out real time personal stats over your headphones. Or LotroDPSEvil can display real time stats, and optionally let you set up a server so multiple people can see each others real time stats.

    If you are going to grumble at least only ask for stuff we don't already have...
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000032ea7/01001/signature.png]Teimori[/charsig]
    [SIZE="1"]The Un-named Kinmate[/SIZE]
    [URL="http://www.themissingdocs.net/wordpress/?page_id=258"]LOTRO Utilities[/URL]

  22. #22
    Registriert seit
    07.11.2007
    Beiträge
    462

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Seeing as we have completed raids for over three years without addons such as DPS meters, I fail to see why we need them now in LOTRO. There are technical limitations involved with attempting to get group DPS meters ingame... and no matter which way it is done, Turbine will not be receiving increased incoming revenue because of it. In fact, it will be the opposite: group DPS meters will not draw many other players to the game (if at all), and it costs money to get that functionality enabled (regardless of method)... and if done through the server query method, that will cause problems for everyone once those extra queries reach a critical mass (in other words, lag and increased load times).

    Also, the kind of behavior group DPS meters encourage actually violates the Code of Conduct, as it is essentially griefing. That alone is enough of a reason to never add that functionality ingame, because Turbine would only be encouraging players to violate the Code of Conduct. That Code is there for a reason.

    EDIT: Due to how the subject of DPS meters is so vitriolic here on the forums, that is a pretty good indicator of how they would be received. Not a good idea.
    Geändert von RingOfFire (12.09.2010 um 19:13 Uhr)
    [B][I]One less Orc in the world is a good thing, and one less leader among the Orcs is a great thing.[/I][/B]

  23. #23
    Registriert seit
    15.04.2007
    Beiträge
    166

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Zitat Zitat von Tilps Beitrag anzeigen
    As previously mentioned you can use cstats to analyze your personal details in great detail.

    You can also use some of my software. LotroChatNarrator can read out real time personal stats over your headphones. Or LotroDPSEvil can display real time stats, and optionally let you set up a server so multiple people can see each others real time stats.

    If you are going to grumble at least only ask for stuff we don't already have...

    qft...plus if I remember correctly, yuor software asks for permissions from others to read their data if they so choose, so it is a good option for those who wish to see theirs and others stats.

  24. #24
    Registriert seit
    16.01.2007
    Ort
    Brampton, Ontario, CANADA
    Beiträge
    1.689

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Zitat Zitat von ButrBiscut Beitrag anzeigen
    I have an immeasurable amount of gratitude that I never have to play LOTRO with you. Your attitude about other players never changes, and it never ceases to cause me to vomit in my mouth just a little bit.

    I will never use meters, I will never be in a kin that makes meters mandatory. Some of my most enjoyable and joyful moments in the game have come from learning how to excel at some of the classes I've played, and I've bonded with the other players who took the time to teach me, push me and encourage me. I have friendships and loyalties which exist outside the game now because of the time and trust I've invested. These are benefits which would not exist if my mentors were meters.

    Magian, why don't you just leave everyone else the alone? You have a kin, and I'd imagine that given your superiority complex that they must be a pretty decent group of players, so run content with them. When are you going to stop judging everyone else and trying to force your worldview and gameplay style on people who aren't interested in your brand of solutions?
    Superiority complex? No, I don't have one.

    The problem that this community has - including you - is that every word I say (on these subjects) are immediately coloured with elitism. This is the furthest thing from what I'm saying.

    Anyone who PUGs knows there is a major skill problem with these players. The main reason, I think, is because Turbine allows you to solo 1 through 65, and the lack of information available to the players. I do not hate on these individuals, but they stink. They throw themselves against content again and again, and wipe endlessly.

    I want to help them!

    I do not want meters so I can go in a pug and say "you all suck, look at my DPS compared to yours." I want them so players can say "oh I tried this, and it's only netting X DPS when a fellow DPSer is netting Y." Then I want them to change their rotation and say "look, that's an increase, so now I'm comparable to the other guy."

    Teaching tools.

    I PUG and so I'm concerned with the community's skill level. I want people who suck to unsuck so the game can progress forward.

    But no, go ahead, call it elitism and I have a superiority complex. It's so much easier than addressing a real problem the game has.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000001078d2/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Leader, [URL="http://www.animuskin.com"]Animus[/URL]
    We are accepting applications.

  25. #25
    Registriert seit
    11.09.2010
    Beiträge
    28

    Unhappy Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Zitat Zitat von Glasscannon Beitrag anzeigen
    why?

    #1 you dont really know if your spell/skill rotation is right for max dps or healing because you dont know what your doing overall

    #2 lets just guess how much threat were doing

    #3 your in a raid, 8 people are awesome, a few are not awesome and you cant down a boss, those few awful people are dragging everyone else down and you have no idea thats what the problem is

    thats just a few reasons.. Ive heard what most people that play this game say, like "we dont want to be wow" "were not concerned with min/max etc"

    it sounds more like you want a communistic atmosphere where everyone is equal and there is no pressure for everyone to give 100% for the better of the group. in wow there are alot of immature players that boast about #1 dps but the fact is, WoW is a finly oiled raid atmosphere, there are no guilds that are competitve in end game content without addons.

    enrage timers, spawn timers etc will put one in your back door unless you know everyone is pulling their weight.. yes there is more to gameplay than dps or hps dps and hps is a huge part of gameplay.. without a dps meter its like guessing how fast your going in your car with no way to tell.. sure my weapon adds 10 dps over my other one but how much was I doing with my old one versus my new one.

    before fanboys everywhere jump on this post like new meat no im not a free player and im not trying to start a huge war, im just saying if you never want to be critisized about how you play then you shouldnt play in groups or you shouldnt play a mmo that has any kind of group cooperation content..

    If you suck at baseball, sit on the couch watching tv all the time drink beer and weigh 400 lbs your not gonna get to play in the world series with the twins.. thats just how it is and thats why guild on wow are like they are, they want to win because its a game. if lotro puts more end game content in and makes it worth raiding maybe they wouldnt have to go free to play to keep people.(and damage meters)
    No, absolutely all wrong. Hardcore/first time kill don't really use that kind of add on.
    I have to know so well my char that dps lose any value. What really takes me in or out a raid is if I avoid damage and how I react vs a unexpected danger.
    A DPS meter can take importance when you play a pug. However, are you really sure dps is the most vital thing? In my experience it's not.
    It's more important how you play: position, judgement, reflex, order. In a sentence: you must know what to do and when you have to do. And you cannot create an add on for that.

 

 
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