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  1. #1
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    On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    As requested, here's a modified version of my guide, taken from its original source here

    First, to make sure we're on the same page:
    FM = Fellowship Manoeuvre = Conjunction = CJ.

    This first post applies to everyone for the most part, but many of the ideas herein are meant for players who group together regularily, and will be inffective on the short term or in PUGs (public groups).

    Some of these apply to everyone, some only for those planning on organizing and leading conjunctions, though I'd suggest reading through them all anyway and take from them what you can.

    The first step, if you have not already done so, is to read up on the conjunction guide here. Also have a look through at least the top posts of the Conjunction Junction thread. The remainder of this thread assumes an understanding of the concepts outlined in these sources.

    Familiarize yourself with the various maneuvers. Learn to recognize a conjunction not by colour, but by direction (on the wheel) and if you haven't already, you'll notice some very simple patterns. You'll notice the most powerful conjunctions, the sort that can bring a group from the edge of disaster to a fresh fighting force, all involve "circling" around the wheel (from any starting point, in any direction).

    Lets start with a few personal tips..

    Setup hotkeys to trigger the various spots on the wheel. I recommend the cursor keys. When your burglar calls out that a CJ is coming, have your finger ready on the appropriate key awaiting your turn in the order (CJ orderings explained later). This can greatly improve your reaction time, leaving more time for other members to get their contributions in. **Note: to do this, go to the keybindings menu in the options and scroll near the bottom, you will see 4 settings with "Fellowship Maneuver" in the name, they are named by their direction, so it will be obvious which goes to which cursor key (Not sure if the keybindings "correct" the bad wheel for Hunters or not, if anyone knows, please post it here)

    Press the button ONCE and wait for feedback. If something went wrong, adjust accordingly and try again. If you're running to the mob, wait for your character to come to a complete stop before pressing the button (as you do with nodes). Double clicking the icon or pressing your key twice will cause your addition to take twice as long to register, or might just result in it not going through.
    Resist the temptation to hammer away at the button. Sometimes, when things get laggy, it takes a moment longer for everyone's (including mine) contribution to show up in the log. If you keep pressing it, your entry will never make it in.

    <NEW! 05/14/07>
    This one goes out to everyone out there running around with a tree trunks, ballistae, meat cleavers and so forth. If you're attempting anything more difficult than spammping a colour, when you see the colour wheel appear (or when you get warning if you're early in the ordering) go ahead and turn off auto-attack. This is in addition to refraining from queueing up more skills. For your reference, the default key binding for this is the tilde key, below the escape key. In fact, I recommend this tactic to anyone trying to minimize delays in their colour choice, but it is essential for slower weapons. Why? Well, your character will not join the CJ until he is finished his current auto-attack animation or skill. Turning off auto-attack will result in immediate (save for latency) registering of your choice.

    After you've made your addition, STOP. Don't queue up a skill, don't target anything else, don't move. Just sit back and wait for the CJ to happen, then resume play.

    Know the patterns. Things go wrong, especially with randomly occuring conjunctions. Your group may have an alternate CJ pattern decided for these (often RRRRRX where X = Y|B|G). If the ordering was supposed to be R->clockwise and #2 chose blue instead of green, #3 hit yellow, and you're up next, go with green, as it is the only possible choice left that will continue the pattern. If you see RRG (happens often, some people are too "RED!" happy), throw in the extra green and complete the pair.

    Know your groupmates. If your offtank is #3 and you're #4, and he's not ready to add his, fill his spot for him. At worst, you'll end up with a length 3 straight (which are still pretty effective). At best, #5 might notice the missing person, see you add for him, and in turn fill your own place. If the group is really good, the offtank might make it back in time to throw in #6. This is especially valuable in randomly occuring CJs, since groupmembers are more likely to be caught off guard. Use this advice lightly, as unless your group is well coordinated and well practiced, going out of order can really mess people up, and you may be better off waiting and hoping that the missing person will get in on time.

    Went early? Pull out! Just move a little in any direction to cancel your addition. You can then resubmit (if there's time), though you'll be placed at the end of the queue, with those after you being bumped forward.

    The bonuses have a maximum range < the hunter's range for joining! What this means is that a hunter can join a conjunction from way back, such as Wrath of the Oathbreakers, and not receive the group bonus to power and morale. The solution? Even hunters should get in a little closer when an expected conjunction is coming. You don't have to be in melee range, but I expect about "20" game distance units, or slightly more than a standard mob's aggro radius should do the trick.

    The moves themselves have a range. With the possible exception of bosses with AOE attacks, I encourage ALL members to close in fully. Even if their role is green or blue. This ensures they will be able to choose any colour when they need it (coincidentally, they're also less likely to start casting anything). This one is key: Red and yellow require you to be closer than your melee auto-attack does. Get right in there and put one foot on the circle around the mob's feet. Use that circle as a gauge for your distance from the mob, as it's difficult to tell with the models sometimes (like with Huorn trees). For Green and Blue, get well within the mob's aggro radius. You still have to be close, though not necessarily in melee range.
    Also, ever ran up to a usable object and clicked it right away, only to have it tell you to stop moving first? It's the same way for CJs, give your character that half-second to stop moving before you hit the key.

    Now, for the organizational tactics..

    Different types of CJs will require different tactics. That is to say, the straights (around the wheel) require that each player be given a number and a colour. Others, like Break the Door require partitions, each with a number and colour. Either way, the idea is to distribute to each individual member of the group a number and colour. For example, here is an ordering for "Entish Justice" in the format I generally use to assign each person:
    1 : Alfonse - Red
    2 : Betty - Green
    3 : Conipercus - Yellow
    4 : Dante - Blue
    5 : Eor - Red

    Here is another example for "Tramp of Doom" reversed (any CJ can be done in reverse order for the same effect):

    1 : Alfonse, Betty, Conipercus - Yellow
    4 : Dante, Eor, Flipper - Red

    So far, this is all pretty obvious. The trick to getting these down is getting people in the best possible order. There are countless factors both positive and negative for each player and each group role for placing a person early or late in the list. Getting the right order can make the difference between a flawless CJ and a random series that barely scratches the mob.

    Your group may contain all or some of the following classes or "roles"...

    The Burglar: Typically starts most of the conjunctions. Should know them better than any other group member, and usually is the one to assign the order, though which CJ to be used may be decided by the group as a whole or its leader. Burglars, when you start a conjunction, don't forget to keep your group updated! This means not only warning about an upcoming planned CJ, but also any misses/resists/immunes, or reattempts. Voice chat is invaluable here, though you can get by without. A countdown ("CJ in 5..4..3...) may also be a good idea in an experienced group, allowing everyone to be at the ready without wasting time.
    Tactic 1: Burglar first. Have the burglar initiate and start the chain. Noone should ever beat a burglar to his own conjunction, or even most random ones. When a burglar starts his own, the 2nd person can throw their colour in immediately, comfortable in the knowledge that the burglar will have his in first, freeing up more time for 3-6.
    Tactic 2: Burglar last. The burglar, being the most skilled at CJs knows best how to fill in, improvise and otherwise help the group finish as long a chain as possible. By going last he can safely fill in for any other group member for a chain length of 1 less. Furthermore, the Burglar should have the best sense of timing, and be capable of throwing down whatever colour adds the most to the group at the very last moment. For example, in a red-happy group, you can safely let everyone choose red, and if they all get in on time, finish off with X = Y|B|G as needed. If they don't all get in on time, you can add one more red for the extra damage.

    The Healer: Generally a minstrel. Never put your minstrel first. Ever. They may need to keep healing (or finish healing) for the first 4 seconds of a CJ, and should not be kept waiting during the rest. However, depending on the desired combination, last isn't always ideal either. Put a slight bias for the minstrel on Blue. Why you say, when everyone in the group gets the power buff? If the combination goes bad, everyone just gets an individual effect based on the colour they chose. If your minstrel was on red and your champion on blue, you just wasted both. It may be wise to instruct your minstrel to add their blue at the last moment if they can, regardless of how far around the group got, ensuring that at the very worst they still get some power.

    The Main Assist: This may or may not be your main tank, depending on the group setup. The key here is that this person, main tank or not, is the one person who should be guaranteed to have focus on the target mob at all times (except those situations where the Burglar picks another mob for immunity reasons or other, but you'll get notice of that ahead of the CJ). During the CJ, the mob will be stunned, so aside from a bit of damage dealing, there's no harm in this person going early in the CJ. Typically they will either be #1, or #2 if the Burglar is #1. It's generally best to give them a red or yellow, though if the MA also happens to be tanking, a green is also a good option in case things go sour.

    Hunters: Hunters are usually great at conjunctions. They don't have to get in close, or worry about being too close. Whenever possible, give them a red or yellow, usually early in the order. If your hunter is quick at them, they can make a good #1, otherwise place them right after either the Burglar or MA, or the next red|yellow to come.
    Special note for the hunters: As I understand it, Hunters still have a bugged (or rather, different) colour wheel for CJs. Sadly, the best conjunctions rely on patterns that move clockwise and counter-clockwise around the wheel. Having the wrong wheel will probably make these patterns seem a whole lot more confusing. I presume this is going to be fixed eventually, but in the meantime, I strongly advise learning how the colour wheel looks for everyone else (see link above on learning the basics) and commiting it to memory. In fact, you may even want to go as far as ignoring the on-screen wheel and mapping your keys to the "normal" wheel (Red = Up, Green = Right, Yellow = Down and Blue = Left).


    Offtanks: When a burglar lands a conjunction, the offtank should have notice enough to target and face the appropriate mob. So, it's usually safe enough to assign them reasonably early, though if you expect a lot of offtanking, you may want to set a different CJ or order for random CJs. You can give them whatever colours you need to fill, they're melee so red/yellow are logical choices, but the green/blue can benefit them with the larger range. For the most part, their exact position will depend on the individual's speed at CJs.

    Lore-masters: Because they have several abilities with long induction timers, and are rarely in melee range, try and bias LMs to the later in the ordering, possibly last (though last place can also be a special position for those who know CJs well, if your LM is such, then they make an excellent last-person). If they aren't functioning as your healer, it's not critical that they be given any particular order or colour.

    Everyone else: These folks are filler to cover the in-betweens so you can give everyone else the colour and position that suits them best. Though keep in mind the general guidelines outlined next.

    General ordering tips: Everyone has a different reaction time, comfort level with the CJs, creativity in improvisation of CJs and understanding of valid combinations. Each of these can affect where you place a person in the ordering. In general, you want to push slow people towards the end, whether because of their connection, their skill with the keyboard or mouse or whatever, if you have a player who consistently delays in getting their colour in, bump them back. Those who are good at understanding and completing combos outside their given colour should be in the middle, or possibly last if they're really good at both improv and timing. Characters with critical group roles (ie: healing) should be closer to the end to minimize lost time. Finally, anyone who frequently makes mistakes in colour or order should be as late in the order as possible, so that a bad placement will have less of an effect. In particular, do NOT put them 3rd, this is the most "vulnerable" position to error and can make a big difference in CJ results.


    Choosing the right Conjunction:

    This is for the Conjunctions that "matter". The ones your group can't afford to screw up, the ones that aren't practice anymore. Usually, before a difficult battle, you'll want to discuss and arrange what will be used. You may also want to discuss contingencies. Also keep an eye out for emergency instructions like "ALL BLUE" over voice or in the chat during such battles, often ensuring that the group gets some power back is more important than attempting the more difficult conjunctions, particularily when a battle gets chaotic. Though clever players will realize after seeing 4 of a kind that adding more of the same colour has little advantage and will choose whatever they feel would be best. For random conjunctions in difficult battles, you may want to set out ahead of time that unless otherwise instructed, everyone should go red (and then, the CJ leader can finish off with X). Only attempt the fancy ordered conjunctions in difficult battles if you have a tested and well practiced group, AND you know the fight is not too chaotic (too many adds lead to poor CJ participation).

    Practice, practice practice:

    Whether you're taking on the witch king himself or boars in the shire, it never hurts to try for the fanciest conjunctions you think the group can manage. Work your way up, first by getting everyone on the same colour, then partitioned combos (RRGG and such), then finally straights. If you have a regular group and are consistently pulling off straights with every group member, you can move on to practicing improv. For example, set up an order but don't assign colours. Start the CJ by picking any colour, have everyone else complete it, in either direction, on the fly using that order (random order CJs simply cannot do straights, it'll never happen. The little bit of delay between clicking and your colour showing up will always result in duplicate entries from different people). If you get *really* good at it, name a CJ (or its colour order) and have your ordered group pull it off on the fly. If you say "5 reds then yellow", then those in 1-5 should know to hit red asap, and #6 should know to wait it out for the final yellow.

    Setting the Stage

    Sometimes there's just no helping those random CJs that come up. Often, it is wise to choose a separate (easier) conjunction for use in this situations, though it may just make things worse. However, there are no such excuses for the Burglar's own conjunctions. The can be ruined by unlucky timing (knockback, stuns..), but you have the ability to give fair warning, and make sure everyone seems to be in place and ready. I usually like to give about 3 seconds warning or so before firing the skill. The first several players in the order should have their finger ready on the desired key (if you're going for a difficult straight) and should STOP the use of all skills save auto-attack). How long your minstrel and others who may be later in the queue can afford to wait will vary, but if this is you, I suggest getting ready early until you're used to the timing. It is the Burglar's job to check quickly that the minstrel is ready (no emergency heals needed), or be prepared not to include them. If your CJ starter is resisted, or you forgot to check for immunity, tell your group asap so they can resume play, or announce that you'll be trying again with another skill (or marbles).
    Last edited by Aurimar; Jun 12 2007 at 08:59 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Interpreting Conjunctions:

    So you've looked over the various combinations, and have decided on a pattern, but don't know exactly which one to pick? The effects of the various conjunctions are really quite logical and predictable. Lets start with the length 6 straights. For example, RGYBRG (or GRBYGR, the reverse order by the same name). You'll notice that in this particular CJ, R and G each appear twice. As a result, this conjunction will: Deal out a large amount of immediate AoE damage, apply a large heal over time (and remove wounds/fear), apply a smaller DoT, and smaller energy refill along with 1 summoned oathbreaker. The opposing CJ would be YBRGYB (BYGRBY), which summons 2 oathbreakers along with a significant energy boost, larger DoT, but smaller immediate damage and smaller heal.

    Because of the more noticeable effect of Wrath of the Oathbreakers (BRGYB, BYGRB), it has quickly become a favorite when 6-person conjunctions fail or aren't possible. This doesn't mean its the best for all situations. In many cases it may be better to start/end with another colour and gain a greater effect from that colour instead.

    As far as I can tell, there is no difference in the various length 4 straights (other than the name). The length 3 straights give you the bonus respective of the colours chosen.

    RRRRRG, RRRRRY and RRRRRB are all AoE DD (Area of Effect Direct Damage), with a bonus heal, DoT (on the target mob, not AoE) and energy/summon respectively. GRRRRB, GYYYYB are similar to RRRRRX only giving both a significant heal and power buff along with similar, though slightly lesser damage. RGYBR is the only 5-man AoE DD conjunction. RRRYYY, RGYBRG and BRGYBR are also AoE DD.

    Choosing a Combo:
    So you're coming up to that boss fight or you've pulled too many adds and the battle is finally getting tough, or maybe you're expecting it to soon and you want to practice the group (very wise of you). Which combo should you choose? This will depend on quite a few factors, including but not limited to the experience of the group, the number of players (though I'm targeting this towards full or near-full groups) and the number and strength of mobs involved.
    I will consider 3 factors in measuring the merits and drawbacks of the various patterns (Straights, Flushes, Full houses, etc). The reliability of a pattern refers to how well a pattern withstands error. A pattern with low reliability will give no real benefit if it's short a single person, or a single wrong colour anywhere in the pattern ruins it. The strength of a pattern indicates the net benefit to the group on successful execution (or near successes weighted by the likelyhood a la Bayes' Theorem). Finally, the difficulty of the conjunction is a measure of the probability of achieving complete or near success and the level of experience of group members required.

    Please note that I'm not comparing the individual colours here, so I will instead represent them with variables. When I use ACDE, you can assume that they follow one another clockwise or counterclockwise alphabetically, with E wrapping around to A. Whether ACD represents BYG or RGY is irrelevant to this section. When I use X and Z, you may assume that Z is the complement to X, that is, Z lies directly across the colour wheel from X. Whether these represent R and Y or G and B is again irrelevant.

    n of a kind (AA, AAA, AAAA, AAAA+A, AAAA+A+A):

    Reliability: Very High. As long as you get a couple people in on it, you're golden. A single wrong colour early in the order can ruin everything, but this applies to every other pattern too.
    Strength: Low. CJs of this form will only have a single effect, of magnitude little greater than each individual effect of more difficult conjunctions. They cannot summon oathbreakers, cure, or deal AoE damage.
    Difficulty: Very Easy. Just call out a colour, it doesn't get any simpler.


    Pairs, Full Houses, 3 & 3 (AABB, XXXZZ, XXXZZZ):
    Note that BBBGGG|GGGBBB is not in fact a named conjunction, but makes for an excellent safety, taking pressure off your healer to make sure they get in.

    Reliability: Medium-high. These CJs rely on having 2 separate groups, in which one must have every member complete their choice before the others can proceed. As a result, a missing entry from a player in the first group can result in 1-2 entries (ie: failure). However, in a full group, a single missing player, usually the minstrel, will simply demote the 3+3 to a full house, still not bad (though in the case of tramp of doom, you lose the AoE). Having a couple players you can trust to get their entries in fast is very helpful here. Instructing your second group to go anyway if time is running short will also help cover you if a player in the first group is bugged/stunned/busy.
    Strength: Medium. These will give you 2 effects, and both with a good deal of potency. You still can't get any oathbreakers, but RRRYYY does dish out enough AoE damage to instantly kill white-con mobs in the vincinity, while landing a very heavy DOT on the target. BBBGG+G or GGGBB+B are enough to fill the fellowship's power and give a hefty heal over time, just as good as 2 separate all green and all blue CJs.
    Difficulty: Easy. The first group has to be quick to react, the second group has to have the wits to wait for the first group. Otherwise, these are pretty simple to plan and execute.


    RRRRRZ (where Z != R):
    Reliability: Low. Any mistake, however small, and this CJ reverts back to red-spam at best, the most unworthy of all effects. These conjunctions are good for fun, but simply not reliable enough for use in boss fights. The exception to this is when the primary goal of the CJ is AoE damage (these are the easiest AoE conjunctions), in which case the reliability, while still low, is no worse than any other (thus AoE conjunctions should never be counted on, but instead used to speed up the group, and for farming non-elite mobs).
    Strength: Medium. Dishes out less total damage to the mob than even RRYY would, but good if you need the AoE. The heal or powerup possible are good and affect the whole group, so the reliability concerns aside, these have a reasonably significant effect. Using blue at the end will summon a single oathbreaker. Were it possible to get a heal AND power out of these, (GGGGGB?) there would be some excellent options, but the forced choice of red at the beginning curbs their power.
    Difficulty: Easy. Most of the group can just spam red, which it would seem comes naturally to most. Then, one player, usually either the Burglar or healer puts in the final colour. Not very complicated, but its pretty much all or nothing on these.

    GXXXXB (BXXXXG) (where X is either R or Y):
    Reliability: Low. Like RRRRRX, a single person failing to participate results in garbage. No aoe, no group heal and no group power or summon.
    Strength: High. The heal buff and power buff, while not quite as good as a full 6 man conjunction can get, is still very generous. The DoT landed by YYYY is a little dissapointing, though whether it applied a slow debuff as well I cannot say without further testing (also not sure if it cures wounds or just heals). The damage is AoE, and comparable to RRRRRX.
    Difficulty: Easy. The trick to these is to have a player (usually the Burglar) who is consistently faster than everyone else dump their choice in first. From there, its a simple matter of instructing everyone else in much the same way as you would RRRRRX. However, this does take away the Burglar's ability to have an entirely clueless fellowship spam red then just finish off with something else (but honestly, I've never seen a group in which not even a SINGLE player can be trained to wait and hit something different).

    Straights (ACDEAC):
    Reliability: Medium. The wrong colour choice or the wrong timing by any player will throw these off, but the advantage of these is the decreasing reliance on each player past the third. That is, if your first 3 players get it right, each player that follows has the potential to strengthen and add effects to the CJ, but is not strictly necessary for the primary effects the group needs.
    Strength: Very High. Pull off the full pattern and you will be well rewarded with good damage, good healing and a full power boost. Furthermore, length 5 and 6 straights double up on one or two colours, giving extra bonuses, including AoE DD, slowing the mob, curing debuffs on the group and summoning a pair of oathbreakers. A group that can hammer these off at will is unstoppable.
    Difficulty: Very High. Every group member needs a number and a colour. Each player has to wait for the one before him before going. This means each has less than a second to recognize and react, including a small allowance for lag. Thankfully, you can put your best players first and still get a good chunk of the effect, even if a few are notoriously slow or have a poor connection. Generally these are only used in regular groups, though you can try to utilize them in PUGs as long as you've got a couple of experienced players you can work with, just don't expect to land the full length 6 straights.




    <TODO: PUG strategies>
    Last edited by Aurimar; May 31 2007 at 04:42 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Nice writeup. Good info.

  4. #4
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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Fantastic article Aurimar. Thanks very much for taking the time to do this.

  5. #5
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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Thanks so much! I just wish I could link it to folks in game

  6. #6
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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    /e votes for a sticky

  7. #7
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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Best tip for me now at mid-level (and I've been using this for a bit) is using tendencyies to spam R and get the roll the drums etc. Especially great for those randoms. Very easy to just tell the one Minstrel in the group to go last and pick G or B for whatever you need, and not have to worry about telling him to get in range at this point.

    Question about them (trying not to high-jack the thread, just got one thing answered while at work). Seems that spamming R tails off in efficiency past RRRR, so how does the DD from RRRRR+G/B compare to RRRRRR? I know there is a nice morale/power boost involved (and even a helper with B) but does the Direct damage still exceed 6-Rs as well?

  8. #8
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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Damage of something like RRRRRR and RRRRRX will be reasonably similar in damage to the mob in question. RRRRRR = RRRR + R + R. Ie: Hail of blows + 2 individual Reds. That being said, RRRRRX will not only add extra healing|power|DoT, but the direct damage it deals is AoE.

    The RRRRRX are a wonderful series of moves, in that they're the easiest 6-length conjunctions to pull off, and have great effects on top of the damage. The downside to these is if you mess it up or miss the last one, the majority of the benefit is lost (whereas with a straight you might still get a length 3-5..all of which still have pretty dramatic effects for the whole group.

    When I have a chunk of time, I'll do a writeup on my observations of the various combinations and their effects (like why Wrath of the Oathbreakers summons 2 ghosts, while, say, the harder Thunder of the Oakenshield summons only one).
    Last edited by Aurimar; May 08 2007 at 01:08 PM.

  9. #9

    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Great post. This should be a sticky.

  10. #10
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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurimar View Post
    When I have a chunk of time, I'll do a writeup on my observations of the various combinations and their effects (like why Wrath of the Oathbreakers summons 2 ghosts, while, say, the harder Thunder of the Oakenshield summons only one).
    It's the number of blues in the wheel, of course . I consistently love pulling off BYGRB in my group, and even when we can't get all the way around, the BYG alone is great in most fights.

    Great Guide and very complimentary to Beleg's Conjunction Junction in the Combat Forums, both are worth a read to anyone on this thread.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/06205000000002bd9/01005/signature.png]Farlegard[/charsig]
    [url=http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=33692]A Basic Combat Primer for Fellowships[/url]

  11. #11
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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Quote Originally Posted by Raij View Post
    Thanks so much! I just wish I could link it to folks in game
    If the "folks" in-game know what a tinyurl is, you can give them this: 2m9rlb

    http://tinyurl.com/2m9rlb

    Oh, and excellent article, btw, thanks.
    Last edited by swiftb3; May 08 2007 at 01:48 PM.

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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    /vote for sticky.

  13. #13
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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    GREAT guide..thank you!

  14. #14
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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    this is great. Thanks for the info. Someone please sticky!!!

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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Sticky would be nice.

    One point of disagreement: hunters: even their auto-attack animations may be pretty long, not to mention skilled induction based attacks. Therefore, I'd generally put them on a red/yellow towards the end of the chain. Melee classes (GRD/Champ/CPT/burg) should be doing the early colors (unless you have a dedicated off-tank of course, who should go towards the end of the chain).

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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    great post. 2 thumbs up

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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Nice info. Bumpity bump

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    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    New paragraph added (look for the NEW!). Basically, it tells you to turn off auto-attack.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    270

    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Whenever I start a conjunction as a burglar (done ~1000 by now - lvl 33) there is always a delay before I can enter...always. Last night I did ~150 as my friend and I duo'd all of Agamaur. Everytime my friend would be able to enter in before I could. I have my fellowship buttons mapped to keys so...literally...I push the key for exploit opening or trip and immediately push (and spam) the key for the color I want. He doesn't even attack, yet there is always a delay. Either I'm missing something or burg's aren't meant to go first!
    Last edited by joepfeifer; May 18 2007 at 04:42 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000000379f/01008/signature.png]Thirran[/charsig]

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    213

    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Quote Originally Posted by joepfeifer View Post
    Whenever I start a conjunction as a burglar (done ~1000 by now - lvl 33) there is always a delay before I can enter...always. Last night I did ~150 as my friend and I duo'd all of Agamaur. Everytime my friend would be able to enter in before I could. I have my fellowship buttons mapped to keys so...literally...I push the key for exploit opening or trip and immediately push (and spam) the key for the color I want. He doesn't even attack, yet there is always a delay. Either I'm missing something or burg's aren't meant to go first!
    Strange...When I set my mind to it, I can beat absolutely anyone to the conjunction, though a prepared hunter with his auto-attack turned off can give me a run for it. Getting your choice in before you begin your first auto-attack is huge, but you say that is the case and you're still being beaten to it? All I can think of that would give you this result is a difference in latency. If your friend has a better connection, it may not only send him the colour wheel first, but register his choice faster on top of it. As my group gets faster and gains experience though, I'm finding they're getting much better at choosing quickly, but still lagging far behind burglars themselves at improvisation and repair (filling in for missing/stunned/busy members, getting the most out of CJs gone wrong). As a result, in groups of this level (and we have a LOT of experience working together), there is additional incentive to put the Burglar later in the order.

    Also, now that this is stickied and won't get buried, I'll continue to expand it. New section coming up soon!
    Last edited by Aurimar; May 20 2007 at 06:00 AM.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    213

    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    New section is up, found at the top of the second post.

    PUG strategies still to come. I don't play in enough pugs to really write this part of the guide, so I'm not sure when i'll get to it. If any experienced PUG leaders want to make a writeup, I'll gladly add it here and give credit.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    213

    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Content added to second post for newly discovered (or at least newly publicized) CJs: GRRRRB (BRRRRG) and GYYYYB (BYYYYG).

    Disclaimer: I make no claim to having discovered these. I first learned of GRRRRB from a fellow kinship burglar named Lerris, though I have also found vague references to it on the boards since then. GYYYYB I tried as a logical alternative to GRRRRB, that I was the first to try it I doubt, but I honestly don't care and make no such claims.

    I'm at work right now, so I don't have access to the names or descriptions of these. When I get home I'll add them to the wiki linked to in the first post.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Casa Grande, AZ
    Posts
    106

    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    PuG groups can usually follow it but practicing with them really does help a lot. Most players in PuG groups just have a hard time getting the timing down.

    One thing I would add though for the whole guide.

    If you initiate a Conjuction make sure you give a 5 second warning. That will allow all specials to be done by the time it goes off (I think the timer for the Minstrel songs with the group trait equipped take about 5 seconds to finish).

    Also if you could put in how to map the fellowship buttons to keys that would be great. Honestly in 36 levels I never knew you could do that.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    213

    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Quote Originally Posted by draugauth View Post
    PuG groups can usually follow it but practicing with them really does help a lot. Most players in PuG groups just have a hard time getting the timing down.

    One thing I would add though for the whole guide.

    If you initiate a Conjuction make sure you give a 5 second warning. That will allow all specials to be done by the time it goes off (I think the timer for the Minstrel songs with the group trait equipped take about 5 seconds to finish).

    Also if you could put in how to map the fellowship buttons to keys that would be great. Honestly in 36 levels I never knew you could do that.
    Excellent ideas both. I thought I had mentioned giving warning, but I see I only made passing reference to the practice, so I've added it to the section on Burglars, along with a simple note pointing people in the right direction for setting their keybindings. Thanks.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Cheese land!
    Posts
    242

    Re: On the execution and planning of Fellowship Manoeuvres

    Quote Originally Posted by joepfeifer View Post
    Whenever I start a conjunction as a burglar (done ~1000 by now - lvl 33) there is always a delay before I can enter...always. Last night I did ~150 as my friend and I duo'd all of Agamaur. Everytime my friend would be able to enter in before I could. I have my fellowship buttons mapped to keys so...literally...I push the key for exploit opening or trip and immediately push (and spam) the key for the color I want. He doesn't even attack, yet there is always a delay. Either I'm missing something or burg's aren't meant to go first!
    actually, this is something i've noticed when i was playing in beta with my champ. it seems to take an extra .25s or so for the hotkey over pressing the button. however, if your unprepared, pressing a hotkey is probably faster because of the distance from where your mouse is to where it has to be. this is purely observation, but i would be interested to see if anyone else has noticed it.

 

 
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